For all those who knock public sector workers!!

[Tim Deegan]

I just copied this from a friends facebook status:

Just a little statement for people who seem to know all about my job:-

* I work a 42hr week, not 37
* second jobs?? anyone can do a second job, come in from work say 6, then off you go out the door again to your second job
*I spoke to guy the other day who delivers beer kegs, he earns a better salary than me.
... *I haven't had a pay rise for a few years and anthing before that was well below inflation.
* I can't leave the station for lunch or go to the pub for a quick beer
*We work antisocial hours, nights, weekends, new years day, easter, oh and guess what I'm working Christmas day
*I've never had a bonus in 13 years in fact no one gets a bonus ever.
*I pay 11% into my pension, paying 14% is wrong.
*I also have targets and deadlines only mine seem to be a little important.
*I don't sit watching TV all the time like someone said the other day, time is filled with training, testing, risk inspections,community fire safety, organising, paperwork, risk management, studying safety critical information oh and I nearly forgot....emergency calls.
*Though I support the public sector we didn't strike, so why are people having a go at me.

So why do I do this job? I enjoy it !!!!! ( at the moment)

[Caff]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

I just copied this from a friends facebook status:

Just a little statement for people who seem to know all about my job:-

* I work a 42hr week, not 37
* second jobs?? anyone can do a second job, come in from work say 6, then off you go out the door again to your second job
*I spoke to guy the other day who delivers beer kegs, he earns a better salary than me.
... *I haven't had a pay rise for a few years and anthing before that was well below inflation.
* I can't leave the station for lunch or go to the pub for a quick beer
*We work antisocial hours, nights, weekends, new years day, easter, oh and guess what I'm working Christmas day
*I've never had a bonus in 13 years in fact no one gets a bonus ever.
*I pay 11% into my pension, paying 14% is wrong.
*I also have targets and deadlines only mine seem to be a little important.
*I don't sit watching TV all the time like someone said the other day, time is filled with training, testing, risk inspections,community fire safety, organising, paperwork, risk management, studying safety critical information oh and I nearly forgot....emergency calls.
*Though I support the public sector we didn't strike, so why are people having a go at me.

So why do I do this job? I enjoy it !!!!! ( at the moment)

Respect to them. (Or was it c&p from somone else?)
Don't let it go on for too long if it drains you

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Caff

Respect to them. (Or was it c&p from somone else?)
Don't let it go on for too long if it drains you

It is actually from a friend and colleagues facebook status. Most of it also applies to me. But I'd also like to add that more firefighters have been killed in recent years than at any time since the second world war....even though a few years ago a government minister said that it isn't a dangerous job any more. In fact three of my colleagues have been killed on duty in the last few years (and that's only at one station).

[alferret]

And the salary is? Far more than what I get I bet.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by alferret

And the salary is? Far more than what I get I bet.

Do you work a 42+ hour week?
Do you work shifts?
Do you work unsociable hours including nights, bank holidays, christmas etc..?
Do you risk your life to save others on a daily basis?
Do you have breaks during your working day?
Do you have to be multi skilled in a very wide range of equipment because yours and other peoples lives depend on it?
Do you also have to be able to give lectures to all age groups?
Do you also have to enforce regulations that could save the lives of members of the public?
Do you run into burning buildings when others are leaving?
Have you burried three colleagues who were killed at work, from your place of work?

In fact what do you do for a living that deserves more pay?

[bornsurvivorxx]

Add Title

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

Sorry about the blank comment!
It seems this person does a very important job, but as far as the pay goes it was a job they chose to do. They must have had an idea about the pay prior to starting. The pension situation is wrong BUT if there is no money in the pot then something has to give.

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Do you work a 42+ hour week?Yes 60-70 hours, but then I don't count hours spent sleeping on night shifts
Do you work shifts?No, just long hours
Do you work unsociable hours including nights, bank holidays, christmas etc..?Yes
Do you risk your life to save others on a daily basis?No, but neithe do firemen - frequently, yes, but on a daily basis, I remain doubtful
Do you have breaks during your working day?Yes, but so do firemen
Do you have to be multi skilled in a very wide range of equipment because yours and other peoples lives depend on it?No
Do you also have to be able to give lectures to all age groups?Yes
Do you also have to enforce regulations that could save the lives of members of the public?Yes, as I am a Board member
Do you run into burning buildings when others are leaving?No
Have you burried three colleagues who were killed at work, from your place of work?No, but to be fair, neither have many firemen - that example is the exception, rather than the rule

In fact what do you do for a living that deserves more pay?

Notwithstanding my commentary above, I have the greatest respect for firefighters (and all the emergency services), but putting forward the 'tough' parts of the job in a somewhat slanted emotive manner doesn't help their argument.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by bornsurvivorxx

Add Title

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

Sorry about the blank comment!
It seems this person does a very important job, but as far as the pay goes it was a job they chose to do. They must have had an idea about the pay prior to starting. The pension situation is wrong BUT if there is no money in the pot then something has to give.

Now we are getting somewhere. You are exactly right of course. But they also started what they intended to be a life long career, with what is really a low wage for the job, but with a good pension at the end of it (that they have paid 11% of their wages into). However due to the fact that various governments have spent the pension fund, rather than investing it, they now want to increase the contributions to 14%.

Now I don't have all the figures for firefighters, but there was a nurse on the news yesterday saying that the changes would actually cost her £70,000, and a teacher who said it would cost her £100,000.

So would you just roll over and accept the government taking £100,000 off you, when you had worked hard for many years and planned your whole future with the pension as part of the package to make up for low pay???

---------- Post added at 13:44 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Notwithstanding my commentary above, I have the greatest respect for firefighters (and all the emergency services), but putting forward the 'tough' parts of the job in a somewhat slanted emotive manner doesn't help their argument.

No, but post 8 does.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Now I don't have all the figures for firefighters, but there was a nurse on the news yesterday saying that the changes would actually cost her £70,000, and a teacher who said it would cost her £100,000.

Compared to what?

I don't take too much notice of other peoples money. only my own

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Notwithstanding my commentary above, I have the greatest respect for firefighters (and all the emergency services), but putting forward the 'tough' parts of the job in a somewhat slanted emotive manner doesn't help their argument.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes 60-70 hours, but then I don't count hours spent sleeping on night shifts

There is a huge difference between sleeping in your own bed at home, and what could only be described as resting at work. Someone once described it as like trying to sleep when you have a very ill baby. You have to be alert at all times to be up, dressed, and out of the doors within two minutes, and don't get what you could call proper sleep. What else do you suggest they do during the early hours of the morning? Are you suggesting they shouldn't get paid whilst they are at work, waiting to respond to an emergency call? I'm sure you would be happy if you were trapped in a house fire, and they turned up fully rested and energised to rescue you.

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, just long hours

I presume from your answer that you are your own boss?

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes

And is that through choice or a contract?

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, but neithe do firemen - frequently, yes, but on a daily basis, I remain doubtful

There are more firefighters killed actually getting to incidents, than actually fighting fires. So each time they turn out on the blues they risk their lives (even for false alarms). Remember it is only a false alarm when they get there.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, but so do firemen

I think you will find they don't. They get stand down periods, but they can't wander over to the shops, or pop out for lunch like most people can. They still have to respond to calls just as quickly. Stand down is not a break.

Originally Posted by Hugh

No

Well firefighters have to have a massive range of skills. In fact probably more than almost all other jobs.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes

I presume you actually get traing for this?

Originally Posted by Hugh

Yes, as I am a Board member

AS an inspecting officer, with legal powers, and a warrant card?

Originally Posted by Hugh

No

Well firefighters do....and it's not like in the movies.

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, but to be fair, neither have many firemen - that example is the exception, rather than the rule

It's actually more common now than it has ever neen since the second world war. Despite a goverment minister trying to tell people that it isn't a dangerous job any more.

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

Compared to what?

I don't take too much notice of other peoples money. only my own

I don't think you quite understand what this thread is about. If you read it you will understand the context.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

So would you just roll over and accept the government taking £100,000 off you, when you had worked hard for many years and planned your whole future with the pension as part of the package to make up for low pay???[COLOR="Silver"]

I don't seem to recall having much say in the matter when Gordon Brown raided private pension funds during his term as chancellor.

OK so two wrongs don't make a right, but fundamentally as a private sector employee the only option for pensions I have is to pay into my own pension fund. I have no idea what pension I'm going to end up with, but each time I look the forecasts are decreasing as the stock market and indeed every other investment form gets decimated. I suspect I'll be lucky to see a yearly income of more than a few thousand and yet I contribute around 10% of my take home salary.

At the current rate of falling behind I can't see me being able to retire before I'm 70. It's worth noting that the person who posted this claim as a firefighter expects to retire with a decent pension much much earlier than this.

[nomadking]

Link

How many sections are there?
Two. There is the 1992 Firefighters' Pension Scheme (FPS), which has been closed to new entrants since 5 April 2006, and the New Firefighters' Pension scheme (NFPS).

...
What percentage of salary do employees and employers pay?
In the FPS employees pay 11% of salaries and employers pay about 24.4%.
The retirement age has been raised to 60 for new recruits since 2006
In the NFPS employees pay 8.5% of salaries and employers pay about 11.8%.

This would suggest that for firefighters that a move towards the NFPS type of scheme wouldn't mean a 3% increase in payments as the gap is already 2.5%.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) suggested that the gap between contributions and pensions in payment would double over the next four years to £9bn.

So where is that £9billion a year(by 2015) and increasing, going to come from?

The hardest hit, according to accountants, would be middle and senior management rising through the ranks. The lowest paid, and those close to retirement should be affected the least.

[Stuart]

That thread did anger me a little yesterday. Mainly because there certain members that appear to think that because some of those who work in the public sector are well paid, and some are, frankly, lazy, that everyone is.

This is not true at all.

For instance, when I started my current job, I was working 50 - 60 hours a week. On a couple of occasions, when working on projects, I was working from 7am to 7pm, 7 days a week for several weeks, with minimal breaks (IIRC 30 minutes for lunch each day was my only break).

My point is that I am not the exception where I work. And, I suspect there are a lot of other people in other areas of public service who do the same. We are being directly affected by this strike.

I'll admit, I have a job where I am not in danger, but that hasn't always been the case. At a hospital where I used to work, they weren't supposed to, but they apparently did put patients who had been sectioned in one of the wards. This ward had state of the art security and was locked at all times, but do you know how big the security department was in the hospital? One guard. One guard who was rather elderly. So, some of the patients escaped quite regularly.

Also, there is danger in departments where you might think there would be none. The DWP for instance. While they have a reputation for being lazy, obstructive and downright rude, again, that's not always the case. Also, bear in mind, when dealing with the DWP that most of their frontline staff get serious death threats nearly every day. They often deal with the scum of society. Scum that is increasingly armed and under the impression that society owes them a living.

They also get wages that are considerably lower than what private companies would pay.

These are the people who you are saying should pay more for their pensions. I haven't even mentioned the emergency services, who we all expect to risk their lives daily, and are still affected by this.

[Osem]

I think all sensible people realise that there are lowly paid and poorly treated people in both the public and private sectors. Sadly for the latter, a guaranteed, earnings related occupational pension is largely a pipe dream and those who have private schemes have seen their values plummet. Since these people form the vast majority of the workforce and if they continue to suffer the harsh economic realities now becoming apparent to us all, I can't see how public sector pensions can be maintained in the medium to long term. For me it's not so much a question of 'who deserves what' it's about what can be afforded in the real world. Builders do a very necessary job and that's probably the riskiest profession of all.

[richard1960]

Originally Posted by Osem

I think all sensible people realise that there are lowly paid and poorly treated people in both the public and private sectors. Sadly for the latter, a guaranteed, earnings related occupational pension is largely a pipe dream and those who have private schemes have seen their values plummet. Since these people form the vast majority of the workforce and if they continue to suffer the harsh economic realities now becoming apparent to us all, I can't see how public sector pensions can be maintained in the medium to long term.

Lord Hutton who done the pesions review looked into all of that, and concluded a career average scheme for public sector workers was sustainable in the medium to long term,he also rejected the notion that we should have a race to the bottom as far as pensions were concerned,now i do believe that public sector pensions do need re-forming and a career average is still not a bad deal.

Also i believe there are a few private sector firms supplying career average pensions i know Tesco withdrew their final salary scheme years ago and switched to career average.