faith and prayer the cure for HIV?

papa smurf · 25-11-2011, 18:37

'We cure HIV with anointing water': Six die after churches tell sufferers they don't need medicine

Pastors at the Synagogue Church of All Nations in Southwark boasted that they had a '100 per cent success rate'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1ek9JAaBO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...mosexuals.html

- the things some people believe in make me shudder, how can they just blindly follow this [insert your own word]

**Russ** · 25-11-2011, 19:18

I think this is a very foolish idea. Not that I doubt God's ability to heal but my view if he gave us the intelligence and skills of doctors for a reason.

If they want to go down that route then although Jesus healed there were still doctors (of sorts) around in his day, Luke was one.

I've seen people walking who 2 years previously were told their back injuries meant they'll never manage more than a few steps. One famous example was WWE former wrestler Shawn Michaels, he was told he had to retire and his back was in such a bad way he'd always have trouble with it. Even some of America's best doctors said the same thing. 4 years later he found Jesus, his back was healed and went on to have another 7 years of top-level performing. But I'm digressing.

We have medicine for a reason.

Gary L · 25-11-2011, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ

I think this is a very foolish idea. Not that I doubt God's ability to heal but my view if he gave us the intelligence and skills of doctors for a reason.

And the intelligence and skills to kill, hurt and rape?

They should bottle that water though.

**Hugh** · 25-11-2011, 19:35

Surely lack of intelligence and skills to kill, hurt and rape?

Gary L · 25-11-2011, 19:43

"If it is God's plan" you will be healed.

why was it God's plan for them to be suffering or dying in the first place. and then he has a change of mind?
(discounting the 'test' thing)

these are the questions they should be asking these people.

Department of Health says 'faith and prayer are not a substitute for any form of treatment'

Department of Health can't say too much because it's religion.

I bet the Department of Health can say a lot about black magic or backstreet fairies that do the healing.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

Surely lack of intelligence and skills to kill, hurt and rape?

Are you including our Armed Forces. or just the others?

martyh · 25-11-2011, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

'We cure HIV with anointing water': Six die after churches tell sufferers they don't need medicine

Pastors at the Synagogue Church of All Nations in Southwark boasted that they had a '100 per cent success rate'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1ek9JAaBO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...mosexuals.html

- the things some people believe in make me shudder, how can they just blindly follow this [insert your own word]

A very dangerous practice if you ask me .People go the church and think they have been healed and promply spread the disease even more ,surely there would be legal ramifications from this ?

papa smurf · 25-11-2011, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

A very dangerous practice if you ask me .People go the church and think they have been healed and promply spread the disease even more ,surely there would be legal ramifications from this ?

can you legislate against faith/belief ? i mean no one is holding a gun to their heads they want to believe its true ,as far as these people are concerned they are cured . and then they die

martyh · 25-11-2011, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

can you legislate against faith/belief ? i mean no one is holding a gun to their heads they want to believe its true ,as far as these people are concerned they are cured . and then they die

I know what you are saying but if someone has HIV and knowingly passes it on they can and have gone to jail ,these people who claim to have been cured should be held liable for infecting anyone else because having faith that they have been cured by their church is not proof

Peter_ · 25-11-2011, 21:50

A blinkered piece of idealism from some very stupid people, if they are so certain of this cure why not let the whole congregation have unprotected sex with the people they have cured and in public so no one can lie about it.

Now I can guarantee that will never happen as no one in that congregation would want to chance becoming infected so the excuses would be in abundance as to why not.

nomadking · 25-11-2011, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

I know what you are saying but if someone has HIV and knowingly passes it on they can and have gone to jail ,these people who claim to have been cured should be held liable for infecting anyone else because having faith that they have been cured by their church is not proof

Really? There must be a lot of prosecutions going on. It not, why not?

Quote:

A third of gay men who know they are HIV positive are still having unprotected sex, a study suggests.
...
According to the survey, those who knew they were HIV positive were statistically more likely to have unprotected sex than those who did not.

martyh · 25-11-2011, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Really? There must be a lot of prosecutions going on. It not, why not?

yes realy

and again

papa smurf · 25-11-2011, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

I know what you are saying but if someone has HIV and knowingly passes it on they can and have gone to jail ,these people who claim to have been cured should be held liable for infecting anyone else because having faith that they have been cured by their church is not proof

but martyh faith demands no proof

Gary L · 25-11-2011, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Really? There must be a lot of prosecutions going on. It not, why not?

I think it's more to do with intentionally infecting the partner, and not telling them beforehand.

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

but martyh faith demands no proof

A bit like a Get out of Jail card in Monopoly.

martyh · 25-11-2011, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

but martyh faith demands no proof

I know ,that's why i said that having faith you have been cured is not proof of a cure ,in other words to avoid prosecution if they pass the disease on they should still be tested by a doctor

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

I think it's more to do with intentionally infecting the partner, and not telling them beforehand.

Isn't knowing that you have the disease and having unprotected sex classed as intentional?

papa smurf · 25-11-2011, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

I know ,that's why i said that having faith you have been cured is not proof of a cure ,in other words to avoid prosecution if they pass the disease on they should still be tested by a doctor

but that would be like a scientist telling them that God has done nothing and i doubt that that revelation would be warmly received.