Benefits appeals system 'on brink of collapse'

[Maggy J]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ther_multiline

Thousands of ill and disabled people have become trapped in a revolving door of medical assessments and appeals at a cost of £80m, with many claimants on their second and third attempts to overturn rulings that remove their benefits.

As cost cutting exercises go I think it can be called a bust..

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ther_multiline



As cost cutting exercises go I think it can be called a bust..

Are you assuming that all those in appeal will win there case. I feel that this is precisely what the Government wanted. A lot of those in appeal if it goes on to long might just give up which means the government wins

The more who give up the more the government saves. Its not right and its wrong but i feel that's there true intention.

[Taf]

It keeps the admin bods busy and paid though....

[dilligaf1701]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Are you assuming that all those in appeal will win there case. I feel that this is precisely what the Government wanted. A lot of those in appeal if it goes on to long might just give up which means the government wins

The more who give up the more the government saves. Its not right and its wrong but i feel that's there true intention.

Indeed - I know a few people who just gave up and didn't progress with their claims in the end.

I don't doubt the govt are using this as another way to save money.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Are you assuming that all those in appeal will win there case. I feel that this is precisely what the Government wanted. A lot of those in appeal if it goes on to long might just give up which means the government wins

The more who give up the more the government saves. Its not right and its wrong but i feel that's there true intention.

No I'm thinking of the actual costs that are involved as being a waste of OUR money.£80m and rising and in the meantime genuine applicants on their second or third appeal may well be suffering genuine hardship.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

No I'm thinking of the actual costs that are involved as being a waste of OUR money.£80 and rising and in the meantime genuine applicants on their second or third appeal may well be suffering genuine hardship.

I agree that there are genuine Claimant's that are suffering.

I just wish there was a better simpler way of finding out who the benefit thieves are and stopping there claims

[mertle]

Absolute disgrace highest level.

But the BLAME is SQUARELY on DWP not ATOS in this case. ATOS being ATOS so why the heck are disabled who under process of appeal being summoned for another ATOS appointment.

Its crazy failures of the incompetance of civil servants which is to blame.

Other is why are people getting many assessments people yet to even have 1.

Crazy setup.

This was telling quote why simply why there many diseases illnesses why are for lifetime. Now if new developments in the field that illness cures then by all means revue the decision but god forbid these people surely live in world of there own.

A Department of Work and Pensions spokesperson said: "Welfare reform will ensure people no longer get written off to a life on benefits.

The whole charade reminds me few years back when I got full polltax charge. Council was investigating it but in meantime another department then put it to court summons. Needless say court threw it out fined council I was rare case to win it.

So no doubt this clear case of one department dont know what the other department doing. They blame labour for waisting taxpayers money but by heck they just as bad each other.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I agree that there are genuine Claimant's that are suffering.

I just wish there was a better simpler way of finding out who the benefit thieves are and stopping there claims

The issue being that the benefit cheats vanish into the undergrowth but the genuine get to suffer for the sake of removing the cheats whilst the whole costs starts to spiral out of control.I'd like the cheats to be exposed and prosecuted..not allowed to just walk away.
Personally it's the latter that makes me think that it has little to do with finding cheats and more about cutting everyone off benefits no matter what.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

The issue being that the benefit cheats vanish into the undergrowth but the genuine get to suffer for the sake of removing the cheats whilst the whole costs starts to spiral out of control.I'd like the cheats to be exposed and prosecuted..not allowed to just walk away.
Personally it's the latter that makes me think that it has little to do with finding cheats and more about cutting everyone off benefits no matter what.

l think you are very right with that assumption and everything that has happened in the last 12 months confirms genuine claimants worse fears.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I agree that there are genuine Claimant's that are suffering.

I just wish there was a better simpler way of finding out who the benefit thieves are and stopping there claims

there is go through every claiment once passed ie either ATOS or appeals accept they not fit then chalk them off ie mark them as so. Note there medical problems if medical breakthroughs which they on which means them to consult doctors or specialists to see if treatment been altered then just leave the poor souls alone. Do revue on there benefit to make sure they claiming everything entitled not medical just chat revue thats it. So if health detorated they might need extra support it be honest system.

By getting through whole shebang they then will hit at somepoint those who should not be on it.

The constant revue they doing just crazy do they keep a check who they already called up. Its even more criminal to keep pestering those who deemed to satisfy there even tighter criteria either by ATOS or appeal.

[Gary L]

I've heard an 'authoritative' person say something like if the claimant is genuine they'll go through with it. if they're not they'll probably give up.

I'd say it was an obvious long process for that very reason.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I've heard an 'authoritative' person say something like if the claimant is genuine they'll go through with it. if they're not they'll probably give up.

I'd say it was an obvious long process for that very reason.

Its not the case though I know someone who got took off collapsed at the jobcentre first 2 signings on ended back on it.

The long winded delays off appeals turn away genuine and non genuine its not definate reason to assume they fakers.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Are you assuming that all those in appeal will win there case. I feel that this is precisely what the Government wanted. A lot of those in appeal if it goes on to long might just give up which means the government wins

The more who give up the more the government saves. Its not right and its wrong but i feel that's there true intention.

Each time I've dealt with the Benefits Agency I've had the impression they try to wear you down so I think there may be a lot more of that than we realise.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by mertle

So no doubt this clear case of one department dont know what the other department doing. They blame labour for waisting taxpayers money but by heck they just as bad each other.

That's because it's got nothing to do with party politics or which party(s) happen to be in power and everything to do with institutional incompetence by the civil service.

I would assume that with all the layers of "Sir Humphreys" inbetween ministers and the actual departments doing the work it's nigh impossible to get the correct backsides kicked.

[RizzyKing]

For those who havn't been through it the appeals process is both physically and psychologically demanding and many people simply cannot live with the stress of the process and abandon their claim it isn't because they are not legit. This is deliberate and i believe the current win % on appeal is 75-80 so most people taken off were taken off wrongly. By now most governments would have been seriously looking at atos at least or sacked them for such an appaling rate but not in the UK we pay them more and come up with more ways for them to screw up people's lives.

Here's the thing though most of the frauds are not longterm they make a claim upto the point they will come under scrutiny and then end the claim wait a couple of weeks and claim again in an ever revolving door of claiming always avoiding all these measures that are supposed to catch them. We have to get the nhs more involved in benefit they are the professionals that deal with genuine claimants they can acurately say whether someone is what they claim to be far more accurately then any other means currently used but instead of that there are plans to further cut them out of the process.

Government knows but doesn't want it public that rates of fraud are no way near as high as they and certain scum media make out it doesn't serve their agenda's. End of the day claimants can do nothing no one wants to hear our voice the general public will decide how this goes and how far any government get in attacking it's all upto you guys.