job market to be slow & painful contraction

[mertle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15715460

Coupled with unemployment rises through private sector, public sector and the disabled thrown to the dogs. We in for one bumpy ride yet tories brainy idea is if you dont get job you work for the dole or hit out disabled/low paid workers.

However government aint worked out one iota this 42m in this country at workable age yet only 28 million jobs/employed. Thats the issue what are they doing to narrow those stats. I fear 28 million might contract to 26m if things dont change from government to businesses and shareholders they all got part to play in getting the country jobs or keeping them.

[Hugh]

And in other news, bears defecate in afforested areas.

Is is just me, or is anyone else not surprised that in the throes of a huge depression, with lots of countries having massive overdrafts and sovereign debt, and with consumers being more careful with their money, that there aren't many jobs being created?

btw, I don't know where you get 42 million from - last years stats show that out of 62.3 million, 11.6 million were pensioners, and 12.2 million were under 16; if you also take into consideration the 1.4 million University students, and the 700k sixth formers, that gets it down to 37 million.

Then you seem to have forgetten the disabled, the non-working mums and dads - seems like some figures are being over-egged to make a point....

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And in other news, bears defecate in afforested areas.

Is is just me, or is anyone else not surprised that in the throes of a huge depression, with lots of countries having massive overdrafts and sovereign debt, and with consumers being more careful with their money, that there aren't many jobs being created?

btw, I don't know where you get 42 million from - last years stats show that out of 62.3 million, 11.6 million were pensioners, and 12.2 million were under 16; if you also take into consideration the 1.4 million University students, and the 700k sixth formers, that gets it down to 37 million.

Then you seem to have forgetten the disabled, the non-working mums and dads - seems like some figures are being over-egged to make a point....

figures slightly out but you get the net issue there will be reductions to the figures to make it more palitable. Nobody can deny not enough jobs out there but hell the theme seams to be to call them workshy. There was not enough jobs in last 20 years if not further just governments massaged figures to hide the scale issue.

Yes there recession coming governments in debt but its been totally manufactured right upto tee from those in banks who set to make mint on the loans to boost economies. Which incidently they now going to loan businesses more money well thats a suprise put more firms into a mess we will see firms goto the wall.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15718590

We need to stop shareholders panicking maybe penalty fine for withdrawal I dont know whats the answer. Dont understand why they happy to milk the cow in good times but pull there money out first sign off trouble if it loses a little. Net result like pack of cards in pyramid they all pull out too many we see the result. Maybe tighter controls of the city stock markets is needed would argue the stock market is the crux issue to the mess. Too many companies overly rely on stock market value instead using there wealth to expand they give far too much away get loans to expand. Net result nothing there for those rainy days panick in the market. With that panick companies then are in trouble jobs go. Nip the crux issue we dont have the recession.

More in work more taxes more funds to governments I accept the mess been compounded by idiot polititians.

[gazzae]

Sorry but you are really complaining about lack of jobs in one paragraph and then criticising banks for loaning more money to businesses in another? Really?

[Alan Fry]

what the government need to do for a start is start some big infrastrcture projects

[Chris]

Agreed ... And I think we may start to see some of that happening. HS2 is a good example which Labour initiated and the Coalition is committed to pursuing. Unfortunately Cameron is facing opposition from the vested interests on his back benches and Labour, which has now decided to put political expediency before something we all know it supports and is making mischief, publishing alternative route plans and stirring up the Nimbys.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Agreed ... And I think we may start to see some of that happening. HS2 is a good example which Labour initiated and the Coalition is committed to pursuing. Unfortunately Cameron is facing opposition from the vested interests on his back benches and Labour, which has now decided to put political expediency before something we all know it supports and is making mischief, publishing alternative route plans and stirring up the Nimbys.

I don't have a problem with building infrastructure to help stimulate the economy and jobs but, without wanting to drag this into a discussion on the merits or otherwise of HS2, I'd like to see some clearer information on how much this is going to benefit the economy as compared to the massive costs involved for what seem like relatively small reductions in travel time etc. If HS2 is going to take significant traffic, be it commercial or otherwise, off the roads it'll have to be priced quite keenly I'd have thought. Is that really likely or are we going to wind up with a state of the art, high speed, white elephant?

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Osem

I don't have a problem with building infrastructure to help stimulate the economy and jobs but, without wanting to drag this into a discussion on the merits or otherwise of HS2, I'd like to see some clearer information on how much this is going to benefit the economy as compared to the massive costs involved for what seem like relatively small reductions in travel time etc. If HS2 is going to take significant traffic, be it commercial or otherwise, off the roads it'll have to be priced quite keenly I'd have thought. Is that really likely or are we going to wind up with a state of the art, high speed, white elephant?

A Alternative to High Speed 2 is upgrading the West Coast Main Line

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

A Alternative to High Speed 2 is upgrading the West Coast Main Line

Not really. There are limited speed improvements to be wrung out of the WCML. It isn't even a single line - it's a complex route network carrying freight and passenger services of different speeds. Any kind of work on the WCML is complex and vastly expensive (as we saw in the middle of the last decade).

We have reached the point where we need a parallel network if we're going to see any significant speed improvements. And significant improvements is very much what is required, as that is what justifies doing the work at all. HS2 really does start to make sense when it gets far north enough to start making domestic connections to Heathrow and central London a viable alternative to flying. That means getting into Brmingham ASAP as proof-of-concept, then getting to Leeds and Manchester, and ideally Newcastle, Glasgow and Edinburgh as soon as possible after that.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chris

Agreed ... And I think we may start to see some of that happening. HS2 is a good example which Labour initiated and the Coalition is committed to pursuing. Unfortunately Cameron is facing opposition from the vested interests on his back benches and Labour, which has now decided to put political expediency before something we all know it supports and is making mischief, publishing alternative route plans and stirring up the Nimbys.

HS2 is a disastrous vanity product and a total waste of money. It'll be absurdly expensive and a rich person's train paid for by every tax payer.

Absolutely no need at all, far better to upgrade existing infrastructure.

[Chris]

We shall agree to disagree on that point. I think the evidence of the last decade is that trying to upgrade the WCML would be more likely to result in wasting money. The line really has nowhere to go in terms of speed improvements, in the absence of rolling block signalling, which has never been made to work on a route as complex as the WCML. As a matter of fact, HS2 is upgrading the infrastructure, just as shifting from A roads to M-ways was an upgrade to our road infrastructure in the second half of the 20th century.

I'm aware that state spending on rail runs counter to the instincts of the small-state thinker, but I happen to think that rail is as fundamental a part of the national infrastructure as the motorways. I'm sure there were plenty of people who thought the A6 was a perfectly good road before they built the Preston Bypass.