Riots

[thenry]

was there a plead gulity agreement?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by thenry

was there a plead gulity agreement?

Do we have these in the UK?

[martyh]

Originally Posted by thenry

was there a plead gulity agreement?

The judge, Mr Justice Saunders, said he took into account the teenager's previous guilty pleas to burglary and violent disorder at William Hill, Tesco Express, Blockbuster and Fatboys Thai restaurant on the same night.

Not sure about an agreement but the guilty pleas where taken into concideration .

One thing that does stick in my mind ,mentioned in the judges statement ,is the futility of those riots .I think most of the people who took part where not normally of that kind of mindset ,they may not have been perfect citizens and maybe strayed across the line a little .But so many are now facing ruined careers and ruined lives because of a few hours madness that for the most part ,i think it fair to say was out of character .One good thing the media has done is give high publicity to the trials and sentences which may in itself serve as a deterrent for those not normally predisposed to violence of this nature but live close to egde of criminality

---------- Post added at 00:14 ---------- Previous post was at 00:10 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Do we have these in the UK?

I don't think we do have "plea bargaining" what we do have is leniency for pleading guilty ,which i suspect may have been the case in this instance .How far we take pleading guilty for leniency i don't know ,but where a death is concerned i think it dangerous to allow offenders to plead guilty in exchange for leniency especially if there is strong evidence against them

[danielf]

Originally Posted by martyh

I don't think we do have "plea bargaining" what we do have is leniency for pleading guilty ,which i suspect may have been the case in this instance .How far we take pleading guilty for leniency i don't know ,but where a death is concerned i think it dangerous to allow offenders to plead guilty in exchange for leniency especially if there is strong evidence against them

True. But with respect to comparing this case to the arsonist: according to the Beeb the arsonist changed his plea from 'not guilty' to 'guilty' after the prosecution presented their case. Surely, that shouldn't qualify for leniency?

[thenry]

so he owned up to all or opened up if you like, showed hes manning up and the judge took note.

[danielf]

Learn to read please. Also please read the preceding couple of pages to learn the context.

[thenry]

sorry i thought your previous post was about the teenager who killed the old man.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by danielf

Do we have these in the UK?

Yes we do

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by danielf

Well, the way I see it is that a prison sentence is clearly in order, but you also have to wonder about this kid's chances of turning his life around after he gets out of jail. I don't think there is much of a difference between an 8 and 12 years (nominal) sentence in terms of deterrent for future crimes. I suspect the likelihood of his re-offending is more likely to be determined by his ability to make something of his life when he gets out, and I don't think that will be positively affected by putting him away for longer.

Actually research has shown we aren't locking people up long enough, anything under 2 years is a waste of time and in our jails I hardly think anyone doing 6 or 8 years is going to get institutionalised, we know what to do but to save a few quid we cut corners and it costs us so much more in the long run, for a start no prisoner sould imo leave jail without being able to read, write and do some sums and no prisoner would leave jail thinking his only option is crime, I worked with young offenders and for some reason they had it in the heads that crime was the only thing they could do.

---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 ----------

Originally Posted by danielf

Do we have these in the UK?

Kind of, the judge takes into account how helpful you have been to the police in clearing up their crime rate and sentences you accordingly.

[Osem]

I have no idea what this young man's history is but can say that at his age there are many youths in our inner cities who're very well versed in crime both minor and serious at his age and much younger sadly. For a large number of these youths it's already too late to change their thinking or their outlook IMHO. They've been raised (if you can call it that) in an environment which has taught them that they don't have to work or study to get what they want, they can just take it. They have no desire to work, scrimp and save over a period to get what they want, they just steal or sell drugs to have those things now. They don't respect anyone or anything - their only concept of respect is related to who's most intimidating, who 'hits hardest' and who's got the most bling. Many have long been fed a diet of resentment and 'taught' that they're not responsible for their predicament or their actions. Sadly, for a fair proportion of these youths from all communities, I feel their future in gangs, crime etc. is already set in stone by their mid-late teens and the best we can do is get them off the streets and keep them there for as long as possible. I do think that whilst in jail there ought to be opportunities for all of them to learn, develop and hopefully change tack but I feel we have to accept that some of them have no intention of changing their ways and no end of concessions made by the state will alter that fact. We have to get to grips with the reality that defective parents tend to produce defective children. Much more effort needs to be put into reversing the trend whereby it's seen as normal and acceptable for young girls to aspire to nothing more than having children by several transient fathers none of whom are prepared to accept responsibility for their actions but expect the state to pick up the pieces. Sadly, we have to teach our young boys that impregnating girls isn't a badge of honour, can't be walked away from and will have lifelong implications.
Given that so many parents aren't doing it, the state must educate our very young children that they can expect and achieve more but only through their own efforts. They need to know they will be helped and encouraged to do this but if they choose the alternative route there will be no kid gloves.

[Osem]

A millionaire's daughter who drove looters around London during the 2011 riots has been jailed for two years.

Laura Johnson, 20, of Orpington, south-east London, had denied charges of burglary and handling stolen goods, claiming she was acting under duress.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18203338

Can't say I'm sorry.

[Derek]

Oooft, a new winner in the riot sentencing smack down arrives.

Five men and a teenager have been jailed after police were "lured" to a pub fire and shot at in Birmingham during riots last August.

The men, who were convicted of rioting, reckless arson and firearms possession, were given sentences ranging from 18 to 30 years at Birmingham Crown Court.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-18349992

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Derek

Oooft, a new winner in the riot sentencing smack down arrives.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-18349992

Excellent news!

Just a pity most of their chums are probably too stupid to see this as a deterrent but at least they'll be out of harm's way for a nice long time. I wonder what'll happen to the local serious crime figures while they're banged up.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Derek

Oooft, a new winner in the riot sentencing smack down arrives.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...ngham-18349992

Excellent news, Now watch the lawyer's line up to make a small fortune from the appeals process

[TheDaddy]

The most appropriate headline re sentencing imo should go along the lines of two men sent to prison for five years (iirc) for inciting riots over the internet and five men not jailed for distributing thousands of child porn images over the internet on the same day.

got our priorities completely right yet again