Eurozone will collapse...

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Chris

The German people are quite rightly asking themselves why they should be expected to pay for the whole party. If the German government is not committed to bailing out the Euro indefinitely then it perhaps means they are finally listening to the voices of the people that elect them.

Its a pity that more politicians do not listen to the voices that elected them then perhaps they would not get into the mess that they do seem to get themselves constantly in.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Chris

The German people are quite rightly asking themselves why they should be expected to pay for the whole party. If the German government is not committed to bailing out the Euro indefinitely then it perhaps means they are finally listening to the voices of the people that elect them.

The German people are benefiting from the debt crisis, their exports are booming + they'll get their cash back at some point.

[Ignitionnet]

Germany have done well from the Eurozone, it's kept their exports cheap for a while.

No way they'll get their money back directly. The only thing that'll rescue the Eurozone now is probably full fiscal union. That will trigger referendums and cause constitutional problems in Germany.

EDIT: This does assume it's not sneaked in via the back door of course.

[Osem]

Leaders of the Eurozone countries have agreed a new bailout package for Greece worth 109bn euros ($155bn, £96.3bn).

It includes, for the first time, support from private lenders, including banks, which will give Greece easier repayment terms.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14239794

I'd say it's throwing good money after bad - if there was such a thing as 'good money' anymore.

This thing is going to get seriously out of hand!

[Damien]

From the brief reports I have read the bailout has had a cautiously optimistic reception from some economists. They seem to think it will work but at the cost (or gain) of closer fiscal ties amongst the Eurozone countries.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

From the brief reports I have read the bailout has had a cautiously optimistic reception from some economists. They seem to think it will work but at the cost (or gain) of closer fiscal ties amongst the Eurozone countries.

I'm no economist and even I 'know' it isn't going to work. Greece and the other countries who were admitted to the Eurozone need to be removed from it before this thing really gets out of hand.

My wife's just come back from Slovakia - she reports massive price inflation since she was last there just a few years ago. The false Eurocrat promise of western affluence for all has only led to prices going through the roof whilst wages stagnate......

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Osem

I'm no economist and even I 'know' it isn't going to work. Greece and the other countries who were admitted to the Eurozone need to be removed from it before this thing really gets out of hand.

My wife's just come back from Slovakia - she reports massive price inflation since she was last there just a few years ago. The false Eurocrat promise of western affluence for all has only led to prices going through the roof whilst wages stagnate......

My understanding was that if Greece were to leave the Eurozone they would effectively end up defaulting on all their debts which would trigger a crisis in Spain and Italy. Then probably Ireland and so on.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

My understanding was that if Greece were to leave the Eurozone they would effectively end up defaulting on all their debts which would trigger a crisis in Spain and Italy. Then probably Ireland and so on.

I think it's called the lesser of two evils. The Eurocrats are in denial. Does anyone really think this money will ever be repaid?

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Osem

I think it's called the lesser of two evils. The Eurocrats are in denial. Does anyone really think this money will ever be repaid?

The banks are effectively writing off some of it. It's meant to be a kind of default that isn't really a default - some money will never come back. I find the whole issue quite difficult as I haven't followed it closely and there is a seemingly endless depth of history to the issue.

Again, My understanding is they consider this path to be the lesser of two evils. They would rather save Greece than let them fall and trigger a full blown crisis across Europe. If Greece exposed the Italian and Spanish banks, which are already on the verge, then there are more countries (such as us!) which are exposed to them and so on.

At the same time they seem to be giving themselves an awful lot of power other the currency and each other's economies.

One commentator said they had a choice to grow apart or enter a more closer union. They took the 2nd option.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

The banks are effectively writing off some of it. It's meant to be a kind of default that isn't really a default - some money will never come back. I find the whole issue quite difficult as I haven't followed it closely and there is a seemingly endless depth of history to the issue.

Again, My understanding is they consider this path to be the lesser of two evils. They would rather save Greece than let them fall and trigger a full blown crisis across Europe. If Greece exposed the Italian and Spanish banks, which are already on the verge, then there are more countries (such as us!) which are exposed to them and so on.

At the same time they seem to be giving themselves an awful lot of power other the currency and each other's economies.

One commentator said they had a choice to grow apart or enter a more closer union. They took the 2nd option.

IMHO trying to save Greece is exactly what could bring the whole lot down and it doesn't surprise me one jot that those whose singleminded obssession has got us to where we are, still refuse to accept reality. So far as I can see, wasting vast sums trying to bail out a country which should never have been allowed into the Eurozone sets a dangerous precedent and only means there's less available to deal with the problems of the bigger economies which really could be the tipping point.

As intriguing as the NOTW scandal is, I really can't understand why it's occupying so much political and media time when we're on the verge of an almighty financial crash which will have very grave consequences for us all.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Osem

As intriguing as the NOTW scandal is, I really can't understand why it's occupying so much political and media time when we're on the verge of an almighty financial crash which will have very grave consequences for us all.

It's occupying so much media time because that's what they think people want to see/read and to a degree they are right, some one said the other day that on the front page of The Sun or Star from way back the headlines went in this order: Gazza dropped from World Cup squad, Geri leaves Spice Girls and India + Pakistan on brink of Nuclear war, there in a nutshell all what's wrong with our media.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

It's occupying so much media time because that's what they think people want to see/read and to a degree they are right, some one said the other day that on the front page of The Sun or Star from way back the headlines went in this order: Gazza dropped from World Cup squad, Geri leaves Spice Girls and India + Pakistan on brink of Nuclear war, there in a nutshell all what's wrong with our media.

...and it's occupying so much political time because the people who got us into this mess would rather pretend it's not happening for as long as they can.

[Ignitionnet]

Regardless of what happens we're being lashed to the mast, and certainly not being asked if we're happy about it.

Europe could be the issue that breaks this coalition, Cameron can only pander to the Euro-sycophant Clegg and ignore both a large swathe of his own party and a large swathe of the population for so long.

As far as Clegg goes given he claims to be a Liberal Democrat he should be all in favour of a plebiscite.

[Matt D]

Greece forced to abandon the Euro in favour of Paypal

In an attempt to stem their growing debt crisis, the International Monetary Fund has told Greece it must abandon the Euro in favour of the more restrictive Paypal.

Christine Lagarde, head of the IMF, told reporters, �We think Greece deserves a second chance, but they also need to learn the value of money, to stop this happening again.�

“So we’ve agreed to pay off their debts, and we’ve stuck 50 quid in an electronic account for them – but they now know we can see how they spend it.�

Following the announcement, the major financial markets rose by an average of 10 points, but eBay jumped by 46%.
Greece turns to Paypal

Greece has embraced its new-found financial independence, and after buying an antique olive stoner from Italy to gain some positive feedback, Greece successfully sold a bottle of Ouzo and 3 tonnes of baklava, and has earned a little yellow star.

Even after Paypal fees, the economy is looking rosier than ever.

There are dangers for the emerging Power Trader, and Greece only narrowly avoided being conned out of 2 months of walnut production by Nigeria.

“It was very closeâ€�, explained George Papandreou, the president and password holder for ‘Zorba1340′.

“Fortunately, we got an email warning against trading outside the market, and we just managed to stop the shipment as their Worldpay payment was reversed. I’ve reported them to ebay: it’s the last time we deal with a country that has less than 5-star feedback.�

(snip)

[Osem]

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has described the bond markets' treatment of Italy and Spain as "a cause of deep concern.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14385636

All that printing money and lending borrowed money doesn't seem to be working does it.....