Eurozone will collapse... - Page 5

Osem · 30-06-2011, 08:22

Quite right - tax evasion as opposed to avoidance is virtually endemic in Greece. To that extent, whilst I sympathise with the problems ordinary people there face, they are in part responsible for it in just the samne way that those here who helped inflate the credit bubble with spending based on borrowing against their homes.

Anonymouse · 30-06-2011, 14:00

The whole business of domino effects is why I've never agreed with globalisation; whatever happens in Greece, a completely separate country from the UK, should not affect us, but of course it will. Local problems should be kept local. Globalisation's only good when things are going right - which, at present, they're not. Global trade by all means, but not a global economy.

**Kymmy** · 30-06-2011, 14:23

What happens in Greece only effects the UK because we let it. I'm all for membership of the EU but it shouldn't mean that we bail out every country who can't see the mess that they put themselves in. The EU was originally a way of lowering borders to give easier travel, commerce between member countries, sorry to say that is now overshadowed by combined legislation and also support for countries that will never be in a position to ever offer us the same support.

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Greek MP's have now just passed the 2nd stages of Austerity laws.. Hopefully the rioters will see that they can't stop the changes as all they're doing is damaging Greece even more.

Osem · 30-06-2011, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

What happens in Greece only effects the UK because we let it. I'm all for membership of the EU but it shouldn't mean that we bail out every country who can't see the mess that they put themselves in. The EU was originally a way of lowering borders to give easier travel, commerce between member countries, sorry to say that is now overshadowed by combined legislation and also support for countries that will never be in a position to ever offer us the same support.

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

Greek MP's have now just passed the 2nd stages of Austerity laws.. Hopefully the rioters will see that they can't stop the changes as all they're doing is damaging Greece even more.

What happens in Greece affects us all because if it all goes pear shaped it will unduly affect what little confidence is left in the banking/financial system. Lack of confidence in financial systems ultimately leads to panic and chaos.

I too have a nasty feeling that if/when our time comes to knock on the ECB's and/or IMF's doors for a bail out they'll echo the words of Liam Byrne
and say:

Dear UK "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left".....

denphone · 30-06-2011, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

What happens in Greece affects us all because if it all goes pear shaped it will unduly affect what little confidence is left in the banking/financial system. Lack of confidence in financial systems ultimately leads to panic and chaos.

I too have a nasty feeling that if/when our time comes to knock on the ECB's and/or IMF's doors for a bail out they'll echo the words of Liam Byrne
and say:

Dear UK "I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left".....

Yes definitely if financial confidence goes then as you say the domino effect could then effect us all even though we are not in the Euro.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8508136.stm

**Kymmy** · 30-06-2011, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

What happens in Greece affects us all because if it all goes pear shaped it will unduly affect what little confidence is left in the banking/financial system.

Personally I don;t think it will.. The situation in Greece isn't about banking instead it's about one countries problem with not only their inability to structure their own tax system correctly but also their link to other countries via a shared currency. If anything it should improve Britain's standing and the pound as a single currency.

Britain though does need to take a step back, put their foot down and state that yes we're happy to be part of Europe but not as the rich uncle/aunt who is forever coming to the rescue of the smaller states.. I wonder if the way things are going that the EU will become a two tier system with France, Germany, UK (and maybe one or two more) cutting funding links with the lower group and to some extent isolating themselves from those countries that see the EU as a charity. The EU should be a "club" of disinction and of economic harmony and membership should be restricted to those capable of adding to the collective as well as benefiting from it.

Dai · 30-06-2011, 16:02

I was all for membership of the 'Common Market' which is what we voted for all those years ago.

Since then it's been hijacked to build a sort of Socialist European Empire.

It's high time some of this wasteful and corrupt system was dismantled. Maybe Greece will mark a start.

heero_yuy · 30-06-2011, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

I was all for membership of the 'Common Market' which is what we voted for all those years ago.

Since then it's been hijacked to build a sort of Socialist European Empire.

It's high time some of this wasteful and corrupt system was dismantled. Maybe Greece will mark a start.

I would't hold your breath m8. Much as the EU is the worst thing that we could have gotten involved in there seems to be no appetite for getting us out of this mess less a chance of letting the proles have a vote on it. Heaven forbid that the public should have a say on the gravy train of the politicians.

Osem · 30-06-2011, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Personally I don;t think it will.. The situation in Greece isn't about banking instead it's about one countries problem with not only their inability to structure their own tax system correctly but also their link to other countries via a shared currency. If anything it should improve Britain's standing and the pound as a single currency.

Britain though does need to take a step back, put their foot down and state that yes we're happy to be part of Europe but not as the rich uncle/aunt who is forever coming to the rescue of the smaller states.. I wonder if the way things are going that the EU will become a two tier system with France, Germany, UK (and maybe one or two more) cutting funding links with the lower group and to some extent isolating themselves from those countries that see the EU as a charity. The EU should be a "club" of disinction and of economic harmony and membership should be restricted to those capable of adding to the collective as well as benefiting from it.

The crisis isn't directly about banking but many major banks have massive interests in Greece and if those look threatened then obviously there'll be some doubt about how bad the damage will be and whether or not their interests in Spain, Ireland, Portugal will go the same way. Confidence in the financial markets is key since nobody wants to invest money unless they have confidence that it won't be lost. Lack of confidence = lack of investment = lack of growth.

I thin the EU aleady is 2 tier with the likes of France and Germany doing pretty much what they like at times and the rest following on behind. Sadly, I feel we're all so closely bound now that there's no way out without real pain - the best we can do is not get any further in.

nomadking · 30-06-2011, 20:07

On the other hand, if potential investors get scared off from investing in certain countries, they are more likely to invest in other more 'secure' countries(eg UK?) instead

Osem · 30-06-2011, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

On the other hand, if potential investors get scared off from investing in certain countries, they are more likely to invest in other more 'secure' countries(eg UK?) instead

Spain, Ireland and Iceland were deemed 'secure' just a few years ago. The problem is that doubt simply breeds more doubt and coupled with the actions of predatory speculators (such as was the case in our very own ERM debacle) that can cause mayhem. You only have to look at the contrasting economic views of the UK to see that there are those who feel the UK is far from a secure bet and there's a great deal of bad news to come.

Overconfidence fuelled the dotcom boom and housing bubble. Lack of confidence, however, can cause fundamentally sound businesses to be driven to the wall or a run on the banks as was seen with Northern Crock. It can become self-fulfilling.

denphone · 20-07-2011, 04:44

According to this they say the only country that can save the EMU is Germany and l have to agree with that but we have to question whether Germany are really that committed to saving it in the long term.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-systemic.html

**Kymmy** · 20-07-2011, 06:17

Very surprised that the Euro exchange rate hasn't been more effected.. since last month it's only moved a couple of cents down against the pound???

Osem · 20-07-2011, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Very surprised that the Euro exchange rate hasn't been more effected.. since last month it's only moved a couple of cents down against the pound???

Well Sterling isn't exactly deemed a safe haven right now. Even though we're not in the Euro we've got plenty of our own problems and a lot to lose if/when the Eurozone's wheels really come off.

**Chris** · 20-07-2011, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone

According to this they say the only country that can save the EMU is Germany and l have to agree with that but we have to question whether Germany are really that committed to saving it in the long term.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...-systemic.html

The German people are quite rightly asking themselves why they should be expected to pay for the whole party. If the German government is not committed to bailing out the Euro indefinitely then it perhaps means they are finally listening to the voices of the people that elect them.