Don't Mention The War

TheDaddy · 07-09-2010, 06:51

RAF veterans were furious last night after German politicians called for Britain to scrap plans for a £3.5million memorial to Bomber Command.

I can understand the German point of view, if missions like Dresden and Hamburg happened today they'd be considered war crimes however the pilots and crews of those planes were very brave and their losses horrific so surely some sort of compromise can be reached.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...an-politicians

Finally on the subject of war memorials this really should be the last if it goes ahead imo. £4 million this particular one will cost and I think the cash could be better used supporting the living veterans in their old age and I think it's fair to say we have enough of them and it's time to move on when even the animals have one.

papa smurf · 07-09-2010, 07:11

dear Germany as you sow so shall you reap -get over it .

punky · 07-09-2010, 07:22

Since when do we have to do what the Germans want? Wasn't that the point of WW2 in the first place?

papa smurf · 07-09-2010, 07:29

and lets not forget if Germany had won the war we would all be driving german cars shopping in German supermarkets ,drinking German beer

who won ???

TheNorm · 07-09-2010, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

... driving german cars shopping in German supermarkets ,drinking German beer ....

I'm just off to Lidl in my Mercedes to buy a case of Berliner Kindl Weisse

**Hugh** · 07-09-2010, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

dear Germany as you sow so shall you reap -get over it .

Perhaps we all need to get over it - WW2 finished over 65 years ago.

We should learn from history, not be obsessed by it....

**Damien** · 07-09-2010, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf

dear Germany as you sow so shall you reap -get over it .

They have really. We're the ones who seek to invoke it consistently, such as when playing them in the World Cup (and promptly losing as per usual).

This is the article from the paper in question: http://www.bild.de/BILD/regional/dre...se-say-no.html

It's rather a small one and hardly amounts to much of a campaign. If you translate the article it actually reads remarkably like one of our own tabloid rags. Still, it's one politician (who is associated with Dresden) and a small article in a German Newspapers. Hardly indicative of the whole country, even if our own tabloids would like it too be so.

**Rob** · 07-09-2010, 09:28

Today is the 70th anniversary of the London Blitz's Commencement. Something like 56 days (I think) of bombing raids every day.

At the time of WWII, precision bombing of specific targets that we know today did not exist. The Germans first started the mass bombing of civilian populations. They just didn't have the equipment to achieve the devastasion that the Allies were able to return in the latter part of the war. Historically we might look back on it today and consider it excessive, inappropriate, it was a strategy both sides were willing to engage.

We should remember that whilst thousands lost their lives on the ground as a resut of the raids and that they should not be forgotten, Bomber Crews from both sides also suffered heavy losses carrying out the tactics of the era and too should be acknowledged for their sacrifice.

Sirius · 07-09-2010, 09:43

Sod them, Its sour grapes because we won.

However in my opinion they have no right to lecture anyone considering there legacy from the second world war and the amount of innocent people they murdered in concentration camps and they should NEVER be allowed to forget that.

berkut · 07-09-2010, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

......We should remember that whilst thousands lost their lives on the ground as a resut of the raids and that they should not be forgotten, Bomber Crews from both sides also suffered heavy losses carrying out the tactics of the era and too should be acknowledged for their sacrifice.

I agree, we should not forget the loss of life and remember, there were good and innocent people killed on both sides.

My kids are about to start a project at school (Primary 4) about WW2. They are curious and asking lots of questions.

I tell them that war is a terrible thing where people die, and that civilisation has lost if we have to resort to armed conflict.

I also tell them that winning a war is not like winning a football game, it just means that the other side have lost more than you have.

I tell them in war everyone loses something.

I am trying to teach them compassion, tolerance and not to hate.

Osem · 07-09-2010, 10:51

"Don't mention the war!...... I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it alright....."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

TheDaddy · 07-09-2010, 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Since when do we have to do what the Germans want? Wasn't that the point of WW2 in the first place?

We don't have to, does that mean they don't have the right to ask though, if so what was the point of the reconciliation and friendship we know today?

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

However in my opinion they have no right to lecture anyone considering there legacy from the second world war and the amount of innocent people they murdered in concentration camps and they should NEVER be allowed to forget that.

Funny no where in the article could I find anything about them saying they wanted to forget anything, unlike the Japanese who wanted to erase the their actions in China from their childrens school books.

Gary L · 07-09-2010, 11:56

I'd shut up if I was them. otherwise we'll kick their asses again

Sirius · 07-09-2010, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

We don't have to, does that mean they don't have the right to ask though, if so what was the point of the reconciliation and friendship we know today?

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Funny no where in the article could I find anything about them saying they wanted to forget anything, unlike the Japanese who wanted to erase the their actions in China from their childrens school books.

I fully agree. I was just making my point that they should never be allowed to forget what happened and no where did i say anyone had said that. My personal feeling is that if they get away with this it will just be the start.

No way should we role over and allow this.

Osem · 07-09-2010, 12:09

We can't rewrite history any more than we should forget or deny it. Terrible things were done across the board in WWII but some were done by aggressors, intentionally, in the most calcluated and horrifying manner (e.g. invasions & mass exterminations) whereas others were done in order to bring the carnage to an end and restore freedom by destroying the ability and will of the nations responsible to carry on (e.g. Hiroshima).

Whilst that may make little or no practical difference to all the innocent victims who perished and suffered, it is the reason why events such as the Battle of Britain, D Day, VE day., etc. should be properly commemorated. Whether that commemoration should extend to memorials to Bomber Command is obviously a contentious issue in Germany but let us not forget the desperate situation that existed at that time and the fact that none of those brave pilots chose to be there doing what it was deemed by their superiors had to be done.

IMO these memorials mark the bravery and sacrifice of those who fought for freedom and have nothing to do with the feelings and sympathy all right minded people will have for those innocent men, women and children who were killed as a result.