Unemployed trial slave labour.

[DaiNasty]

Originally Posted by Earl of Bronze

I think we are all missing the most basic component of todays labour market in the UK.... No matter what the government may want to do with regard to unemployment. There are just too many warm bodies, for too few jobs. Thus there will always be a surplus of warm bodies, sitting around doing nothing.... There are only so many shelves that need stackers, only so many bugers that need flipping etc....

That's the truth of it. All the factory jobs that existed when I was a lad have been exported to 3rd-world countries. The Governments rolled over and allowed the multinationals to take their production abroad and still sell into our markets without penalty.
Years ago there used to be import taxes that helped to protect our industry. What happened to our government priorities? Now all they can do is to create new non-jobs checking dog licenses.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

SMG with all respect m8 when was the last time you were unemployed ???.

Rizzy, there has to be a limit as to how much time a person is allowed to sit on benefits. If you are retraining, thats fine, irrespective of the time limit, you are doing something constructive, you are trying. My gripe is with the people who openly refuse to work, either by swinging the incapacity laws, or just refusing to work.

These are the people who give all claimants a bad name. When I left the forces, I did have quite a few ailments, but I couldn't find a job infiltrating enemy lines & blowing something up, so I retrained to be a Driving Examiner. Totally different job than I did before. I did this job until I suffered a Heart attack whilst on test. I was forced to retire on ill health. I still found myself a job after that, & retrained as a manager with a cleaning company.

I plodded on there till they found out that I had been given a sick note for life. I never even claimed one penny from the DSS, or any other benefit, but I was still forced to quit & relegated to the benches.

There are disabled people out there who could claim every benefit going, but there are some of us who are still dying to work for a living. Then there are the others, who I described earlier, who wont even get out of bed for their dinner.

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You seem to favour a pick and choose method as opposed to one set of human rights fits all.

I thought about this, & your right, I do pick & choose. When I think of certain sections of "People", Pedophiles, child killers, rapists, serial killers & other undesirable selections, I would deny them their "Human rights".

Just as they denied their victims their "Human Rights".

[RizzyKing]

SMG in the example you gave guess if i have sympathy with that speciman or not but while there are people like that it doesn't equate to enough people for it to be fair to generalise. I am now on incap totally being honest i got fed up of trying as hard as i could and constantly getting rejected so i gave in and while i am hoping a new treatment will allow me to go back to part time work i am not that optimistic anymore. Sometimes you can do your best try everything and still end up potless and it is those people that are going to be hit by this.

That lad will as i said if this ever comes in get out of bed real early one morning to get his useless backside to the doctors and claim some fake ailment and this scheme won't impact him for a very long time if ever thats why this isn't the answer and could make more trouble then it's worth and not just for the unemployed but every working person.

[rogerdraig]

SMG

so you think that benefits should stop after a set time whether you were trying to find work or not and just leave them with no money ?

most of those on the dole will work which is why most of these ideas on forcing people into work fail because in very short order all places available for placements are full

same goes for disabled who wish to work most are quite willing to have a go at something they can do but when ever they run a scheme ( mostly touted in the press as making those lazy disabled work ) they again ruin out of placements sometimes even before the scheme starts

i have been threatened with them quite a few times in the past by some youngster behind a desk who normally comes back with there "no places now but if you dont make yourself available we can cut your benefits" line designed imho to frighten people BUT they never find anything

and in the long run the dole is the place to keep those who really don't want to work there are not many who really fall into that category but those that do, do you really want them helping cook your food or clean the operating room before your operation

[RizzyKing]

No i don't want them doing that Roger but how much can you screw up removing graffiti or other community based things . That can be done once and only once there intention to not work no matter what they are offered is determined. Most people on unemployment or other benefits will accept an appropriate job or oppurtunity and will grasp it with open hands but as you said not enough of those exist and our training structure in the UK as a whole is pathetic for a so called developed nation.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

No i don't want them doing that Roger but how much can you screw up removing graffiti or other community based things . That can be done once and only once there intention to not work no matter what they are offered is determined. Most people on unemployment or other benefits will accept an appropriate job or oppurtunity and will grasp it with open hands but as you said not enough of those exist and our training structure in the UK as a whole is pathetic for a so called developed nation.

no big problem with doing things like that but then i would say we have some criminals who i would rather see doing those jobs first

and as for helping in the community they would get more on dole doing it if they made it much easier for those signing on to volunteer to do charity or community work with out jepordising their claims with the available for work rules they often enforce too tightly

last year i had two dads of kids at the nursery who were off work after being laid off who were willing to do some work at the nursery ( we are charity based i dont get paid ) as we needed some painting done and a few odd jobs the dole made them fill out a load of forms and were told they risked their benefit and best of all they wouldn't decide if it was allowable till after they had done it needless to say they decided against it

however both came back and did the work after getting new jobs after work at their new jobs the ones boss even gave us some paint


so much for work shy Britain

[SMG]

You would be surprised at the number of young, fit lads, who sit at home doing nothing. In my area, council flats are only allocated to "Vulnerable People", when a young man leaves the Army, after 8 years service, he should expect his home town to offer him somewhere to rent.

Instead, our flats are only available to Alcoholics, Drug users, or other "vulnerable" people, including the long term unemployed.

Ex service personnel can sleep rough. Sod them. Lets look after the ****heads. Thats the attitude of authority today.


Roger, No. If you cannot, or will not find work, after a period of time, then you should be made to contribute towards your benefit by working. If you refuse, you get nothing. Your partner, children, home etc is secure, they will get benefits.

[rogerdraig]

on your first part yes soldiers should be looked after far better by the government no argument

on the other i fail to see how you think that will work

if your not going to effect the family then you will end up giving them more money to stop them being affected by the loss of money of the father or mother which ever you decide is the wage earner ?

as to contributing a lot will have done so by paying their stamp while working and those who havnt what work do you give them will they be keeping others out of work while working for nothing

it would be far better to just make volunteering much easier while on the dole and if anything tried to match up people with volunteer work that is either what they are good at or will give them something positive for their cv and will allow them to complete what they are volunteering to do

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by SMG

Roger, No. If you cannot, or will not find work, after a period of time, then you should be made to contribute towards your benefit by working. If you refuse, you get nothing.

Which works out at about 11 hours at the legal minimum wage?

Your partner, children, home etc is secure, they will get benefits.

Assuming that they don't include all them benefits when they either suspended or signed him off.

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Gary L

Which works out at about 11 hours at the legal minimum wage?



Assuming that they don't include all them benefits when they either suspended or signed him off.

I don't believe "all them benefits" are included, just JSA.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

I don't believe "all them benefits" are included, just JSA.

But surely if he has a family. whatever money they have suspended or stopped is 'their' money. an amount needed to provide for a whole family, not just the one person?

I don't know if housing benefit is affected by a claim.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

it would be far better to just make volunteering much easier while on the dole and if anything tried to match up people with volunteer work that is either what they are good at or will give them something positive for their cv and will allow them to complete what they are volunteering to do

Do you seriously think this would work?? What about the days when you just cant be bothered, or you had a late night, or you need to go shopping.

[rogerdraig]

yes we get loads interested in volunteering but few come back after their visit to job centre to ask what entails

i am one of a committee of three all of us disabled all of us not paid but because we believe in what we are doing we put the effort in

and there are loads of others doing the same we don't get in the paper and most of don't want to we don't do it for recognition maybe we should to counter the idea spread that everyone is work shy etc but i just want a quiet life outside of the nursery

if i ask for help from parents its invariably given for free where they can and often thwarted only by silly rules that those with jobs at the job centre seem to love to enforce rules on availability for work or on form filling that end up costing us so much time its just not worth it to get some one to paint a wall for free or fix a door ( council charges us the going rate if we get them to do it )

even those kids which seem to be picked on often are more than willing to help we had to move rooms in the porta cabbin last year ( needed larger room ) a load of the kids who used to come to the nursery but are now in their late teens came and although we had a few dropped things they helped

i think most people when asked nicely are willing to help but when you start ordering people you put up a barrier and start a conflict that need never happen

[slowcoach]

Originally Posted by rogermevans

no big problem with doing things like that but then i would say we have some criminals who i would rather see doing those jobs first

Going through Oldham today I saw a gang of lads painting some railings, fixed to the railings was a large sign which in essence said, “These people are on community service, paying back the community for the crimes they have committed.” Stopped me in my tracks I can tell you.

---------- Post added at 02:00 ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 ----------

Employers would be the first to complain if there were no unemployed people in the Country, unemployment allows them to get away with paying minimum rate in a lot of cases, more unemployed the better as far as they are concerned, and no doubt all the political parties feel the same way.

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Gary L

But surely if he has a family. whatever money they have suspended or stopped is 'their' money. an amount needed to provide for a whole family, not just the one person?

I don't know if housing benefit is affected by a claim.

You would be incorrect in that assumption - the only benefit proposed to be affected by this is JSA, and that is for the individual. Other benefits are not affected paid to a family would not be affected.