Unemployed trial slave labour.

[SMG]

If the jobs gone, its gone. What do you want to do, wait for another to pop up, do you expect the taxpayer to stump up while your waiting? How long do you wait? How long do you want to wait?

[martyh]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

How could I be expected to do a menial job like flipping burgers & sales assistants, both jobs are unskilled where the first jobs I ever had to do and the reason I spent £5,000 getting a skill base I could you for a better job.

that's exactly the problem imo with the system .Anybody who is unemployed is assumed to be able to take any job offered ,now while this is true in theory, in practice someone who is highly trained in their field will have expenses to match the wage they have been used to ,minimum wage won't pay for my van,diesel,tools ,insurance +the general costs of living so i would have to sell my van ,tools ect thus diminishing the potential of getting work .like you i have spent alot of money trying to guarantee i don't have to rely on the state ,so when the world finances go to pot i understandably feel a bit upset and resent being lumped alongside of the pepole who will not work

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Originally Posted by SMG

If the jobs gone, its gone. What do you want to do, wait for another to pop up, do you expect the taxpayer to stump up while your waiting? How long do you wait? How long do you want to wait?

that isn't the point SMG ,but in answer to your question ,as chris has already pointed out, highly trained ,highly paid people are not usually out of work for too long so you could say that they they are only getting back a bit of what they have put in .In my opinion it is the governments responsibility to attract employers into this country (as Maggie did with Toyota an Nissan)so that this sort of situation doesn't arise in the first place
The point is should anyone be forced to work for less than the minimum wage

[Sasha222]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Er can i have something a little more definitive that most unemployed people are sat at home necking strong lager allday please. I do love how some people on here who get upset at generalisations that relate to their jobs say police doing nothing but spending time catching motorists are so quick to happily lumber another group with a pathetic generalisation. yes there are some people claiming benefit who waste their time but they are a tiny tiny minority and are not indicative of the group as a whole.

I take it all those saying this is a good idea would be happy to have their wages cut to the level of £1.27 an hour i mean if it's good enough for one group in our society then it's good enough for all surely ???. Typical attitude these days scapegoat a group, turn people against them enough and then exploit the hell out of them while getting cheered by the majority till they lose their job and their attitude changes.

This is a lousy scheme and will not help anyone but bosses who will quickly latch onto the fact they can get rid of people or bully them into lower wages on the threat that they will take on a load of people from the jobcentre. One of the biggest problems with unemployment is the loss of feeling worthwhile and that you have nothing to contribute and were going to sort that by having them out for 40 hours a week cleaning toilet bowls yeah this is all about helping the unemployed isn't it .

---------- Post added at 22:19 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

Looks like the goverment are trying to stop companys moving out to the countrys that employ people to do cheap labour and instead they are getting the unemployed to do the dirty work now and then say Oh Look the unemployment figures are down how good we are doing. Next they will take kids out of school and have them back up the chinimeys again.

[SMG]

As has been said, people who want to work invariably find work, its not those people who should be targeted. Its the people who refuse to work, for one reason or another. If you have been trained & have a skill, thats fine, you should be able to find work. However, if your skill is no longer needed, or there is a glut on the market, you have 2 choices. retrain, or work in a lower paid job.

My bro-in-law was a senior draftsman engineer, a well educated, university graduate. When PC`s emerged, with C.A.D. his job was finished. He was asked to retrain to use CAD, no way, he said, computers will never take off. (Idiot) So he sat on his backside for 2 years, before finally getting a job working in an office, at a vastly reduced wage.

Anyone who refuses to work after a set period of time, should be targetted, they should be forced to take a job with at least the minimum wage. Anyone refusing would have their benefit stopped.

I am aware that there are highly qualified people out there who have earned top money. But, to be fair, if the job has gone, & they refuse to work, they are a burden on an already overtaxed state, &, everyone who wants to work has to live them down. These people would have to work for their benefits & if that works out to be 50p an hour, so be it.

As far as I'm concerned, a shelf stacker or burger flipper is higher up the ladder than anyone who refuses to work.

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

What is it with some of you?? Burger flippers, shelf stacker's, now people who clean toilets?? Are you lot so far above doing jobs like these, how long would the country last if these people stopped working?

Last bin mens strike was the same, guys being called rotten for not cleaning the crap away, how long do you "holier than thou" people think you will last without some of these essential workers.

Self important.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by SMG

As has been said, people who want to work invariably find work, its not those people who should be targeted. Its the people who refuse to work, for one reason or another. If you have been trained & have a skill, thats fine, you should be able to find work. However, if your skill is no longer needed, or there is a glut on the market, you have 2 choices. retrain, or work in a lower paid job.

i agree as i have said retraining is always a viable option,and imo if someone has the ability to achieve top dollar then retraining to a similar standard won't be problem

My bro-in-law was a senior draftsman engineer, a well educated, university graduate. When PC`s emerged, with C.A.D. his job was finished. He was asked to retrain to use CAD, no way, he said, computers will never take off. (Idiot) So he sat on his backside for 2 years, before finally getting a job working in an office, at a vastly reduced wage.

Anyone who refuses to work after a set period of time, should be targetted, they should be forced to take a job with at least the minimum wage. Anyone refusing would have their benefit stopped.

Agreed but retraining in a job suited to there abilities is preferable and if they refuse training then stop benefits

I am aware that there are highly qualified people out there who have earned top money. But, to be fair, if the job has gone, & they refuse to work, they are a burden on an already overtaxed state, &, everyone who wants to work has to live them down. These people would have to work for their benefits & if that works out to be 50p an hour, so be it.

i still think that a potential 40hrs for dole is a step to far

As far as I'm concerned, a shelf stacker or burger flipper is higher up the ladder than anyone who refuses to work.

agree 100%

What is it with some of you?? Burger flippers, shelf stacker's, now people who clean toilets?? Are you lot so far above doing jobs like these, how long would the country last if these people stopped working?

Last bin mens strike was the same, guys being called rotten for not cleaning the crap away, how long do you "holier than thou" people think you will last without some of these essential workers.

no-one is knocking them we need them as much as we need architects ,builders and company directors ect the difference is professional people undergo alot of training and have a great deal of expertise which is wasted if they are forced to work in mcdonalds or some such place for just over a pound an hour

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by SMG

As has been said, people who want to work invariably find work, its not those people who should be targeted. Its the people who refuse to work, for one reason or another. If you have been trained & have a skill, thats fine, you should be able to find work. However, if your skill is no longer needed, or there is a glut on the market, you have 2 choices. retrain, or work in a lower paid job.

My bro-in-law was a senior draftsman engineer, a well educated, university graduate. When PC`s emerged, with C.A.D. his job was finished. He was asked to retrain to use CAD, no way, he said, computers will never take off. (Idiot) So he sat on his backside for 2 years, before finally getting a job working in an office, at a vastly reduced wage.

Anyone who refuses to work after a set period of time, should be targetted, they should be forced to take a job with at least the minimum wage. Anyone refusing would have their benefit stopped.

I am aware that there are highly qualified people out there who have earned top money. But, to be fair, if the job has gone, & they refuse to work, they are a burden on an already overtaxed state, &, everyone who wants to work has to live them down. These people would have to work for their benefits & if that works out to be 50p an hour, so be it.

As far as I'm concerned, a shelf stacker or burger flipper is higher up the ladder than anyone who refuses to work.

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:20 ----------

What is it with some of you?? Burger flippers, shelf stacker's, now people who clean toilets?? Are you lot so far above doing jobs like these, how long would the country last if these people stopped working?

Last bin mens strike was the same, guys being called rotten for not cleaning the crap away, how long do you "holier than thou" people think you will last without some of these essential workers.

Self important.

I don't have an holier than thou attitude,I just dislike the idea that a person who has paid in his/her contributions towards the social services should be treated as being worth less than minimum wage.Doesn't matter what the job is, £1.27 an hour is an unfair wage.

Plus what is to prevent anyone using this labour force to undercut other workers on higher wages?

[SMG]

Originally Posted by martyh

agree 100%




no-one is knocking them we need them as much as we need architects ,builders and company directors ect the difference is professional people undergo alot of training and have a great deal of expertise which is wasted if they are forced to work in mcdonalds or some such place for just over a pound an hour

Firmly agree, but no one is too aloof to work, like I said, if the jobs gone, what do people expect to do?

---------- Post added at 23:00 ---------- Previous post was at 22:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I don't have an holier than thou attitude,I just dislike the idea that a person who has paid in his/her contributions towards the social services should be treated as being worth less than minimum wage.Doesn't matter what the job is, £1.27 an hour is an unfair wage.

Plus what is to prevent anyone using this labour force to undercut other workers on higher wages?

I don't have a clue what the employers will do, nor does anyone else, my interest is not in the people who want to work, its the lazy devils who refuse to work that I`m interested in. Anyway, immigrants & overseas workers are already undermining our economy, working on the cheap, we don't need our own doing it. Also, I don't like anyone dissing any group of workers simply because they are unskilled.

As far as I`m concerned, anyone refuses to work, end of message, highly trained or not they are no better than anyone else, get out & pick the crap up, clean the bogs, or get no money.

[Maggy J]

I'm not going to argue except to say I will not if I have any say in it, allow anyone's human rights to be trampled underfoot.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by SMG

Firmly agree, but no one is too aloof to work, like I said, if the jobs gone, what do people expect to do?

then re-train ,like your bro inlaw should have done ,it's not a huge leap to change from draughtsman to using a cad program and still requires a lot of technical knowledge that he would have already had

my own brother had to re-train from a air frame mechanic in the RAF to a IT technician in civvy street a total change in career but does prove that someone with enough inteligence can be diverse ,this is where the government should concentrate their efforts instead of comming up with stupid ideas like the one this thread refers to

[SMG]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'm not going to argue except to say I will not if I have any say in it, allow anyone's human rights to be trampled underfoot.

What rubbish. You would allow some people to refuse to work, for no reason, & defend them with human rights?

What about the human rights of ordinary hard working people, who are sick & tired of paying for some lazy useless individuals, lying in bed, waiting for their weekly handout?

Not everyone on benefits has the intention of working, just as not everyone has the intention of not working. 23 year old lads who have never worked, sitting at home with the beer cans, sucking on the bong, knocking up a 13 year old girl, & living as a parasite on the system, you would defend these people?

Defend people who want to work yes, people who cannot work, yes, people who refuse to work, no way.

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

then re-train ,like your bro inlaw should have done ,it's not a huge leap to change from draughtsman to using a cad program and still requires a lot of technical knowledge that he would have already had

my own brother had to re-train from a air frame mechanic in the RAF to a IT technician in civvy street a total change in career but does prove that someone with enough inteligence can be diverse ,this is where the government should concentrate their efforts instead of comming up with stupid ideas like the one this thread refers to

Absolutely m8, thats what I said in an earlier post. But not to sit on the system waiting for the gravy train, waiting for a job that may never materialise & expect us to pay for it. Allow a reasonable period of time, yes, but not indefinitely.

[martyh]

just to clarify my stance

forcing people to work ,potentially for 40hrs for 1.27 is wrong ,long term unemployed should be made to do something to earn the dole ,definitely train them and possibly a few days a week voluntary work ,i don't know ,if i did all of you would be voting for me in the next election

so i'm off to bed cos i got a long day in my new job

[SMG]

Originally Posted by martyh

just to clarify my stance

forcing people to work ,potentially for 40hrs for 1.27 is wrong ,long term unemployed should be made to do something to earn the dole ,definitely train them and possibly a few days a week voluntary work ,i don't know ,if i did all of you would be voting for me in the next election

so i'm off to bed cos i got a long day in my new job

It depends who you are forcing m8. I suspect it would be only a small number. The majority of the unemployed want to work, but they are let down by the militants.

Theres a cup of hot chocolate with my name on it by the bed, so, me too.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by SMG

...23 year old lads who have never worked, sitting at home with the beer cans, sucking on the bong, knocking up a 13 year old girl

Mate, with all due respect, if this is something you're aware of happening there are other places (ie your local nick) that need to know about it before CF.

[georgepomone]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Er can i have something a little more definitive that most unemployed people are sat at home necking strong lager allday please. I do love how some people on here who get upset at generalisations that relate to their jobs say police doing nothing but spending time catching motorists are so quick to happily lumber another group with a pathetic generalisation. yes there are some people claiming benefit who waste their time but they are a tiny tiny minority and are not indicative of the group as a whole.

I take it all those saying this is a good idea would be happy to have their wages cut to the level of £1.27 an hour i mean if it's good enough for one group in our society then it's good enough for all surely ???. Typical attitude these days scapegoat a group, turn people against them enough and then exploit the hell out of them while getting cheered by the majority till they lose their job and their attitude changes.

Thanks for saying that Rizzy. I was thinking the same myself. Thought I'd better not having been shot down for going against something said. I'm retired now 65 but was lucky enough to always have a job. Not always one I liked but a job. My heart goes out to people who are now stuck in this awful rut of having no work and not much likelyhood of a job.
Many with families to support. Not everyone gets these huge handouts on benefits.
This is a lousy scheme and will not help anyone but bosses who will quickly latch onto the fact they can get rid of people or bully them into lower wages on the threat that they will take on a load of people from the jobcentre. One of the biggest problems with unemployment is the loss of feeling worthwhile and that you have nothing to contribute and were going to sort that by having them out for 40 hours a week cleaning toilet bowls yeah this is all about helping the unemployed isn't it .

[frogstamper]

Blimey you can tell there is an election imminent, some back-room number cruncher no doubt thought this would play well with some of our more insanely rabid tabloids.
I agree that the very small percentage of work-shy who simply don't want to work need a kick up the back-side,but surely the way to go about this is too pay them the minimum wage rate, and they work the hours that equal their dole money.
In this way there isn't the stigma of being paid a pound an hour whilst others around you are getting five times that amount.
I very much doubt that in its present form this will ever happen anyway, no government wants to be accused of putting its citizens into modern day slavery, the tories wouldn't do it for fear of invoking the nasty party tag again and labour couldn't do it because its own MP's would vote it down.
As I mentioned at the start, in my opinion it is purely a sop to the DM, DE and Sun.