Unemployed trial slave labour.

[Jon T]

I'll be a bit more clearer that I was previously then. This is already happening and has done for years, the formats just has a minor tweak.

Some people are motivated, very motivated infact, and they generally go on to get permanent, normally paid jobs. The people that aren't motivated wouldn't be motivated by a MP5 pointed at their head!

I worked for a placement provider for four years after being a New Deal trainee at the same place before that, that why i'll say again, this is just a re-hash of what's been happening for years.

There's no "one size fits all", no "answer to everything". I'm afraid being unemployed is being unemployed.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by SMG

Are you saying that people who work for a living, earning money & paying taxes, are "menials" simply because they flip burgers, or stack shelfs??

Millions of people are employed doing what you describe as "Menial" jobs. These people are at least off their backs & trying to earn a crust. They are at least, paying their way.

If your "Skilled", unemployed person refuses to work, because its a "Menials" job, then he or she deserve absolutely nothing.

When your in a boat, adrift, its all hands to the pumps m8, those who don't want to work get thrown overboard. There are too many people who think they are a cut above the rest & wont work. It makes no difference what you were, it only makes a difference, what you are.

So your saying that somebody who has been earning £12+ per hour, and only lost his job because the company he worked for ****ed of to Belgium, (and letters to Lord Mandelson did SFA) should only get £1.27 PH, which is an insult to them.

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

So your saying that somebody who has been earning £12+ per hour, and only lost his job because the company he worked for ****ed of to Belgium, (and letters to Lord Mandelson did SFA) should only get £1.27 PH, which is an insult to them.

YES.

....If there unable to get a suitable position within a resonable amount of time.

Though i dont agree with the 40 hours of full time work as that leaves no time for job hunting. IMO what should bee done is you get told you have todo 40 hours per week of EITHER unpaid work, official training, or active job hunting (within the job center or attending intivues) or any combenation of the 3.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

So your saying that somebody who has been earning £12+ per hour, and only lost his job because the company he worked for ****ed of to Belgium, (and letters to Lord Mandelson did SFA) should only get £1.27 PH, which is an insult to them.

Absolutely. If your job has gone, its gone. What would you prefer, this person to sit on benefits until such time (If that time ever arrives) as they can get another well paid job, or take a lower paid job meanwhile?

[RizzyKing]

To SMG and all the others that think there are millions sitting around doing nothing and having the life of reily on benefit go and speak to some of those people your so happy to generalise about and find out first hand what it is like. For the vast majority unemployment isn't a holiday they don't like it and do not want to be unemployed they want work and where it is needed\best for them they want to retrain. Unemployment has to be the worst thing in the world because first thing you lose is the sense of dignity the money you get is no longer yours earned by you for those you love. Secondly you lose the routine that meant so much to you and even trying hard it starts to slip for many after so many application and refusals of jobs.

Most long term unemployed are completely demoralised and have lost all belief of self how the hell is this scheme going to help them and don't say "because it gives them somewhere to go and work" because that only means something if like everything else you earn it and look forward to it. Being handed some crap job in a factory where everyone will know who and what you are is not helping them.

How about instead of being so keen to generalise about so many people you all start calling on this government and the next one to actually ensure the money made available for adult training is properly used and allows us to fill the skills shortages we keep getting told we have with some of the majority unemployed that do want to work. Right now government training schemes are a joke and i know from personal experience where i had to work ten times harder to get my qualifications then i should have done because the company concerned had their money for me attending and didn't give a stuff about me actually getting the qualification.

There is and has been for quite a while in this country been a divde and conquer campaign going on by certain media publications and by this government and it is time to stop using people as political pawns or as a scapegoat for wider problems and get some decent practical help out to these people that makes them wake up in the morning and want to get out there to the job\training that is available.

As for that minority of lazy workshy scroungers that do exist i don't and never have denied their existence do you honetly think they will be affected by this scheme hell no. They will be the first to be down the doctors and suddenly develop some condition preventing them from taking part because they know all the loopholes in the system and how to play it and are aided quite often bystaff in the system allowing them to do it.

If it was that easy to get to that group i would be all for it because they do more damage to genuine decent people then anything else and make it even harder then it has to be to be taken seriously. Mainly because as some of you on here have shown you believe their numbers to be far higher then they are and tar us all with the same brush.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by beeman

YES.

....If there unable to get a suitable position within a resonable amount of time.

And that, really, is the heart of the issue. There's no point putting someone with an earning potential of £20, £30 or £50 per hour in a job where they will earn maybe £6 or £7. It simply pushes a chunk of their cost of living onto the State, in the form of tax credits, possibly free school meals and council tax benefit, plus it deprives the exchequer of tax income. If you're on £40 per hour, for example, you're almost certainly a higher-rate taxpayer.

But after a period of time has passed without that person getting any work, the argument that they have the potential to earn at a high rate begins to suffer - a long spell of unemployment is the proof of it.

Having said all that, and at the risk of making a sweeping generalisation, I doubt there are very many high-earners on the dole for the two years or so that will have to elapse before they become eligible for this scheme.

[Hom3r]

I will happily work, but not for way below minimum wage.

[SMG]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

To SMG and all the others that think there are millions sitting around doing nothing and having the life of reily on benefit go and speak to some of those people your so happy to generalise about and find out first hand what it is like. For the vast majority unemployment isn't a holiday they don't like it and do not want to be unemployed they want work and where it is needed\best for them they want to retrain. Unemployment has to be the worst thing in the world because first thing you lose is the sense of dignity the money you get is no longer yours earned by you for those you love. Secondly you lose the routine that meant so much to you and even trying hard it starts to slip for many after so many application and refusals of jobs.

First of all, life stinks. That said, get over it. No one has said that all unemployed people are scroungers. But, there are millions of capable people sitting around, doing nothing. Virtually every service person leaves the forces & has to train for a civillian job, you don't hear them bleating & bellyaching. I`m are talking about the lazy. The people who just don't want to work.

Decent honest people just don't sit on benefits for years, they get jobs.

We are talking about the people who REFUSE to work, because......................................

Anyone who tries hard to get a job should have the help they need.

Anyone who flouts the system should be allocated a job, or benefits stopped.

The taxpayers are sick & tired of paying for people who think they are exempt from working because they cant be bothered, or too good to take a lower paid job.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by SMG

Are you saying that people who work for a living, earning money & paying taxes, are "menials" simply because they flip burgers, or stack shelfs??

Millions of people are employed doing what you describe as "Menial" jobs. These people are at least off their backs & trying to earn a crust. They are at least, paying their way.

If your "Skilled", unemployed person refuses to work, because its a "Menials" job, then he or she deserve absolutely nothing.

When your in a boat, adrift, its all hands to the pumps m8, those who don't want to work get thrown overboard. There are too many people who think they are a cut above the rest & wont work. It makes no difference what you were, it only makes a difference, what you are.

thats rubbish and i suspect you know it is ,people who are highly trained (alot of the time at their own expense)WILL feel humiliated at being suddenly unemployed through no fault of their own and making these people work for £1.27p/h is disgusting ,making anybody work for that is disgusting
The private companies that will be managing this scheme must be rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of all this free labour becoming available.The likes of Asda/tesco or any of these types of employers with high staff turnover are likely to bid for this scheme because when some one leaves to go back to colledge or uni they won't have to replace them via the jobcenter they will just recruit from the unemployed .

you should not class all unemployed people as layabouts ,i was unemployed for 4 months from nov 09 -feb 10 i refused to sign on untill late january and when i did i was horrified at the attitude i got from some of the staff ,they seemed to think that a highly trained tradesman like me can just walk into a job anywhere and shouldn't be signing on ,i was glad to sign off a week later ,the most humiliating experience of my life

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

I will happily work, but not for way below minimum wage.

The good PR is that it's work experience for the client. good for the soul and good for the mind. getting them out there and showing employers they are a good worker.

The bad PR is that it's getting the layabouts off their arses and showing the working classes that the government is being tough and something's being done.

will it work where the dole don't pay you any money but the company that you are doing slave labour for do. so that they can officialy take the slaves off the unemployed books and figures?

[martyh]

[QUOTE=Chris;34977341]And that, really, is the heart of the issue. There's no point putting someone with an earning potential of £20, £30 or £50 per hour in a job where they will earn maybe £6 or £7. It simply pushes a chunk of their cost of living onto the State, in the form of tax credits, possibly free school meals and council tax benefit, plus it deprives the exchequer of tax income. If you're on £40 per hour, for example, you're almost certainly a higher-rate taxpayer.

But after a period of time has passed without that person getting any work, the argument that they have the potential to earn at a high rate begins to suffer - a long spell of unemployment is the proof of it.

Having said all that, and at the risk of making a sweeping generalisation, I doubt there are very many high-earners on the dole for the two years or so that will have to elapse before they become eligible for this scheme.[/QUOTE]

i wouldn't say i am a high earner but your point is still valid and did apply to me ,because i am qualified in a sort after trade i was not umenployed for long

[SMG]

Originally Posted by martyh

thats rubbish and i suspect you know it is ,people who are highly trained (alot of the time at their own expense)WILL feel humiliated at being suddenly unemployed through no fault of their own and making these people work for £1.27p/h is disgusting ,making anybody work for that is disgusting
The private companies that will be managing this scheme must be rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of all this free labour becoming available.The likes of Asda/tesco or any of these types of employers with high staff turnover are likely to bid for this scheme because when some one leaves to go back to colledge or uni they won't have to replace them via the jobcenter they will just recruit from the unemployed .

you should not class all unemployed people as layabouts ,i was unemployed for 4 months from nov 09 -feb 10 i refused to sign on untill late january and when i did i was horrified at the attitude i got from some of the staff ,they seemed to think that a highly trained tradesman like me can just walk into a job anywhere and shouldn't be signing on ,i was glad to sign off a week later ,the most humiliating experience of my life

Read my last post.

[Hom3r]

Does this £1.27 PH include travel /fuel costs?

Tomorrow I have the joys of phoning me telling me what jobs are in their system, the same system that I check every Mon, Wed & Fri. (they do this one Wed monthly)

The last time they sent me 6 jobs:

1. Job had no contact details, but when I phoned the JSA it had been closed.

2. Job had no contact details, but when I phoned the JSA I had to contact the NHS via the ref number, it did not exist.

3. The Job was listed in Brentwood, but when I phoned the company it was actually in Bracknall some 80 miles from where I live.

4. The job was due to close on Friday, so I emailed my CV & Cover letter to them, I them went out to an exam I had. When I got home latter that evening, there was a email saying that I had to fill out there 20 page application form as CV's are not accepted. I had a printer, but no access to a working scanner.

So in the 6 jobs they sent only 2 where of any use and I am still waiting for ant response.

The the JSA sending me on a job, (for somebody who has spent the last 22 years since I left school in and out of night school, spending the best part of £5,000 to get a better job) fills me with no hope whatsoever.

[martyh]

Originally Posted by SMG

Read my last post.

i have ,changed your tune a bit hav'nt you

There are too many people who think they are a cut above the rest & wont work.

it's not a case of being a cut above the rest ,in my case i have spent a lot of my own money getting qualified and buying a van and tools ,off the top of my head about £30,000 so i'm sorry if my refusal to accept a plan that would mean i could end up stacking shelves in tescos for £1.27p/h offends you but ..get over it ,it's a stupid plan ,it's very offensive to us people who actually bothered to get educated and worked hard and wanting to better ourselves instead of being satisfied with less demanding jobs ,and as has already been mentioned it's probably illegal

[Hom3r]

How could I be expected to do a menial job like flipping burgers & sales assistants, both jobs are unskilled where the first jobs I ever had to do and the reason I spent £5,000 getting a skill base I could you for a better job.