Will we ever get to the truth about Ashcroft's tax status - Page 8

Osem · 07-03-2010, 22:28

Secure in the knowledge that her husband, despite being a mere male, has just been parachuted into a safe* Labour seat, Harman's been banging on about Aschroft again:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8554219.stm

Quote:

"The real question is why hasn't David Cameron sacked Lord Ashcroft as deputy chairman if he has kept David Cameron in the dark for all these years?"

Well I don't know........, perhaps the very same reason Lord Paul hasn't been sacked by New Labour??.... Anyway, Cameron could always do what our 'whiter than white' government has done with Mandelson twice in the past and get shot of him only to bring him back into government when it suits....

* so confident were they of his appeal to the electorate that they had to find him a seat even he probably couldn't lose...

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/2...5233-25939387/

Flyboy · 07-03-2010, 22:47

But I am not aware of Gordon Brown committing himself to sacking anyone who is not a UK resident for tax purposes. I don't recall Lord Paul making a written commitment to become a UK resident either. I don't suppose you have seen such undertakings, have you?

Osem · 07-03-2010, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But I am not aware of Gordon Brown committing himself to sacking anyone who is not a UK resident for tax purposes. I don't recall Lord Paul making a written commitment to become a UK resident either. I don't suppose you have seen such undertakings, have you?

Oh I see - so it's nothing to do with what's fundamentally right and wrong then - it's about who promised what to whom and it only matters when it concerns the opposition? The fact that such double standards evidently don't bother you or 'whiter than white' New Labour says it all really.... Hypocrites of the first order!

Tell me something, has New Labour, so concerned as it clearly is about the role of non-doms in creating legislation in the UK, sought any assurances from Lord Paul about his tax status?? If not, why not??

I could point out that Brown and Bliar have made quite a lot of promises they've either cynically broken or haven't delivered on since 1997 yet I don't hear you creating any fuss about that. I seem to recall a very clear Bliar promise to serve a full third term for example.......

Flyboy · 07-03-2010, 23:32

Do you agree that Ashcroft lied to several people, in regard to his tax status, during the last ten years?

nomadking · 07-03-2010, 23:41

Does anyone remember the issues around the mortgage applications of Labour Minister Tessa Jowell and her hubby?

The manner in which he handled that payment(and maybe others) was money laundering and tax evasion(he paid the tax eventually, which proves it) in this country. The actions were deliberate, not just an oversight or misunderstanding of the rules. As for her claiming not to know about anything, wouldn't you ask questions if your home was being put at risk and she would have got her own separate letter from the mortgage lender regarding any transactions connected with the mortgage.

danielf · 08-03-2010, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Do you agree that Ashcroft lied to several people, in regard to his tax status, during the last ten years?

Actually, what I think he did was to use a fiddle. He never claimed he wouldn't be non-dom. He said he'd be resident, which is what he did. People mistakenly believed this meant he would be paying taxes on all his earnings, when it didn't. Apparently, nobody picked up on the difference between domicile and residence, and he just continued, as he kept his part of the bargain, which wasn't the bargain it was supposed to be.

Edit: look back to post 55. The condition was residence, not domicile. If anyone is to blame, it's William Hague, who apparently did not pick up on the difference (or didn't care).

frogstamper · 08-03-2010, 02:27

There is surely no doubt that Ashcroft knowingly deceived William Hague in 2000, WH let it be known that Ashcroft was now going to be liable for millions of pounds of UK tax, a statement he wouldn't have made if he'd known Ashcrofts true intentions.
Personally I'd have thought the tory posters would have been queuing up to knock Ashcroft, because from this whole debacle WH comes out looking like he either covered for Ashcroft all these years, or far more likely in my opinion has been misled by him.
Also after this episode it looks like voters in key labour/tory marginals are not over enamored by the goings on in their constituency's, the tory lead in these key seats is also down to just 2%.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...ginals/3569462

Osem · 08-03-2010, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Do you agree that Ashcroft lied to several people, in regard to his tax status, during the last ten years?

I've no idea but you seem to be of the view that it's only 'Tory' liars who need to be sacked and tax status only matters when it's 'Tory' tax that isn't being paid?

How odd it is that when, over the past 13 years, New Labour has been the architect of a cynical form of government driven by lies and spin and have taken us to war based on dodgy dossiers, you say nothing whatsoever about it yet when a Tory donor (whose party is not in power) is accused of breaking personal promises with regard to his tax status you jump on the moral bandwagon. One minute it's all about the missing tax millions and the next minute it's all about broken personal promises. A very nice case of selective memory and double standards that...

I notice you again skirted around Mandelson's history and current status at the very heart of government - a man who currently has far more direct impact on what happens in this country than Ashcroft does and probably ever will. If Cameron were to copy the Bliar and Brown commitment to bringing an end to parliamentary sleaze all he'd have to do would be to sack Ashcroft and then bring him back when it suits! I dare say if he did that though you'd have plenty to say about it...

---------- Post added at 08:46 ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

Does anyone remember the issues around the mortgage applications of Labour Minister Tessa Jowell and her hubby?

Well of course some people around here have selective amnesia when it comes to home truths... Yes there are so many examples of New Labour sleaze over the years it beggars belief that anyone believes anything they say...

**Hugh** · 08-03-2010, 10:27

Speaking of residencies and taxes, some interesting stuff surfacing in Guardian and Times re a previous Prime Minister.

Taxes1

Taxes2

Passports

I wonder if we'll have a non-dom ex-PM after the election (as it would be sub-optimal before)?

Osem · 08-03-2010, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Speaking of residencies and taxes, some interesting stuff surfacing in Guardian and Times re a previous Prime Minister.

Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but...... It's not about missing millions in taxes that could and should be benefiting the likes of the NHS, it's all about broken promises....

NEWSFLASH

"Ashcroft has Cameron by the balls"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7053686.ece

So says the man whose grasp on Brown's gonads hasn't relaxed for a nanosecond since he came back into Government..... More hypocrisy from the unelected Lord running the country!

Flyboy · 08-03-2010, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

I've no idea but you seem to be of the view that it's only 'Tory' liars who need to be sacked and tax status only matters when it's 'Tory' tax that isn't being paid?

How odd it is that when, over the past 13 years, New Labour has been the architect of a cynical form of government driven by lies and spin and have taken us to war based on dodgy dossiers, you say nothing whatsoever about it yet when a Tory donor (whose party is not in power) is accused of breaking personal promises with regard to his tax status you jump on the moral bandwagon. One minute it's all about the missing tax millions and the next minute it's all about broken personal promises. A very nice case of selective memory and double standards that...

I notice you again skirted around Mandelson's history and current status at the very heart of government - a man who currently has far more direct impact on what happens in this country than Ashcroft does and probably ever will. If Cameron were to copy the Bliar and Brown commitment to bringing an end to parliamentary sleaze all he'd have to do would be to sack Ashcroft and then bring him back when it suits! I dare say if he did that though you'd have plenty to say about it

The fact that he wrote to William Hague and promised that he will become resident in the UK for tax purposes and then it turns out that he had no intention of doing so would be be seen as a lie by a blind monkey, but you say that you don't know. What would it take to make you agree that he lied?

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Speaking of residencies and taxes, some interesting stuff surfacing in Guardian and Times re a previous Prime Minister.

Taxes1

Taxes2

Passports

I wonder if we'll have a non-dom ex-PM after the election (as it would be sub-optimal before)?

As far as I am aware Tony Blair is not making any substantial contributions to the Labour Party, unless you know otherwise. I also don't think his influence stretches as far in the Labour party anymore, as Lord Ashcroft's does in the Tory Party.

danielf · 08-03-2010, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

The fact that he wrote to William Hague and promised that he will become resident in the UK for tax purposes and then it turns out that he had no intention of doing so would be be seen as a lie by a blind monkey, but you say that you don't know. What would it take to make you agree that he lied?

But he did become resident for tax purposes. He just chose not to be domiciled , which was (wrongly) not part of the agreement. Either because William Hague didn't know, or because he didn't care.

**Hugh** · 08-03-2010, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyboy

The fact that he wrote to William Hague and promised that he will become resident in the UK for tax purposes and then it turns out that he had no intention of doing so would be be seen as a lie by a blind monkey, but you say that you don't know. What would it take to make you agree that he lied?

---------- Post added at 17:39 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

As far as I am aware Tony Blair is not making any substantial contributions to the Labour Party, unless you know otherwise. I also don't think his influence stretches as far in the Labour party anymore, as Lord Ashcroft's does in the Tory Party.

Strange, isn't it, that people continually hark back to Mrs Thatcher as on ongoing influence on the Tory party, but mention the previous Prime Minister from three years ago, and it appears not to have the same relevance.

So Mandelson, Burnham, Milliband - no influence in the Labour Government.....

**Chris** · 08-03-2010, 20:32

Stranger still how all the Labourites have been so careful to draw their lines in the sand so that Lord Ashcroft is 'bad' and Lord Paul is 'good'.

**Hugh** · 08-03-2010, 21:34

But Lord Paul isn't a non-dom!
(Oops, yes he is)

But Lord Paul hasn't contributed to the Labour Party!
(Ooops, my bad - yes he has)

But Lord Paul isn't/hasn't been a senior member of the Labour Party!
(Ooops, my bad again, he was Labour Deputy Speaker in the House of Lords)

But Lord Paul didn't step down from his Office whilst being investigated for £38k in expenses claimed for a flat he had never spent a night in (even though his personal fortune is approx £500 million)!
(Oops, my bad once again - he did).

BUT IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! - WHY CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT!