Police dogs die in car during heatwave - Page 3

rogerdraig · 02-07-2009, 20:37

the dog vans normally have air con that can be left on with engine running at the moment we dont know if this was the case or if the air con failed for some reason

if they were left with none of this then yes some one should be held to account but at the moment we don't have enough information to say

having met a few dog handlers i cant see that any would do anything to harm thier dogs lots keep the retired dogs and i know one who gave up after his dog got killed they are not normally the sort to hurt animals

**Derek** · 02-07-2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogermevans

the dog vans normally have air con that can be left on with engine running at the moment we dont know if this was the case or if the air con failed for some reason

The dogs were in the handlers private vehicle, not a marked Police van.

martyh · 02-07-2009, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

I suppose evidence isn't worthwhile, straight to pokey for 6 months regardless of the circumstances.

Right I'm confused, if it wasn't intentional how do you know it was in no way an accident?

I've no idea what happened but what about this for a scenario (completely made up BTW)

The Cop goes into the office to pick up a piece of paperwork, something like a citation for court, a copy of a statement or similar. He knows where it will be and he should be in and out in a minute tops so he leaves the dogs in the car.
As he is inside someone trips one of the alarms, say for example a cop being attacked by a prisoner, and he rushes off to help them and ends up restraining a violent prisoner for some time.
In the rush and confusion he is busy trying to hold down someone and forgets the dogs are still in the back. By the time the situation calms down and he remembers it is all too late.

*IF* this was the case do you still think he deserves 6 months inside?

absolutly there was no excuse :a-the windows should have been open
b-there should have been water in the car /van
c-it most definately was not an accident ,just because he did not mean to do it does not mean he wasn't responsible or should not be punished ,it was gross negligence not to mention stupidity which as i have stated is usually punished with a jail term if a death is involved .

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

The dogs were in the handlers private vehicle, not a marked Police van.

that just makes it worse ,he was obviously on private buisness even if called into HQ so he should have been prepared

**Derek** · 02-07-2009, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

absolutly there was no excuse

So regardless of the circumstances he should get the maximum penalty?

I'm glad you aren't a judge. Hopefully when the full story appears more level heads will prevail and if he is prosecuted he'll get a suitable sentence rather than a pitchfork waving mob.

rogerdraig · 02-07-2009, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

The dogs were in the handlers private vehicle, not a marked Police van.

that might make it a bit of a problem for him then

here they keep their dog van for private use as well as on duty thought that was the norm

martyh · 02-07-2009, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

So regardless of the circumstances he should get the maximum penalty?

I'm glad you aren't a judge. Hopefully when the full story appears more level heads will prevail and if he is prosecuted he'll get a suitable sentence rather than a pitchfork waving mob.

if he gets jail it will probably be suspended or at most 3 months in a cushy open prison
and yes i am harsh and perhaps to some unreasonable but when defensless animals die in the most horrific and painfull way imaginable caused by the one human they should be able to trust with their lives it just makes my blood boil .There was no excuse short of the owners own death for this to happen .

**Derek** · 02-07-2009, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

There was no excuse short of the owners own death for this to happen .

So my example of what might of happened isn't acceptable? He should have left a colleague to get seriously injured or possibly killed while he wandered off to the car?

The handler is the only person that knows exactly what happened and how long they were in the car for, if he is at fault he will be punished for it. I guarantee he'll be horrified about the incident as well, the dogs after all were his companions almost 24/7.

martyh · 02-07-2009, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

So my example of what might of happened isn't acceptable? He should have left a colleague to get seriously injured or possibly killed while he wandered off to the car?

The handler is the only person that knows exactly what happened and how long they were in the car for, if he is at fault he will be punished for it. I guarantee he'll be horrified about the incident as well, the dogs after all were his companions almost 24/7.

i'm sorry Derek but your example is not even close , yes he should have helped his colleague,of course but if he was prepared properly i.e open windows and water a delay like that would not have mattered

and by the way i appreciate that your standing by a fellow officer and would probably do the same, i get very upset with animal cruelty in whatever form it takes, i do see it as black and white and nothing will change the way i see this unfortunate incident

Gary L · 02-07-2009, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

The handler is the only person that knows exactly what happened and how long they were in the car for,

Someone will know what time he turned up, and the time it happened.

**Derek** · 02-07-2009, 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

i'm sorry Derek but your example is not even close , yes he should have helped his colleague,of course but if he was prepared properly i.e open windows and water a delay like that would not have mattered

I think it shows clearly that he may have popped in for a few seconds and been caught up in something beyond his control.
We don't know if the windows were slightly open, they may well have been. The car may have been parked in the shade and in time the sun moved round. All these things happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh

and by the way i appreciate that your standing by a fellow officer

It's nothing to do with it being a cop. There are reasons for everything that happens. Very little is black and white and if it turns out he just left them there while he went for a chat then he does deserve everything thats coming to him but immediately demanding his head on a silver platter without knowing the facts does no-one any good.

martyh · 02-07-2009, 22:21

[QUOTE=Derek S;34826430]I think it shows clearly that he may have popped in for a few seconds and been caught up in something beyond his control.
We don't know if the windows were slightly open, they may well have been. The car may have been parked in the shade and in time the sun moved round. All these things happen.

i think were going to have agree to disagree on this one Derek
if people get priorities wrong that's when things like this happen

03-07-2009, 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

I suppose evidence isn't worthwhile, straight to pokey for 6 months regardless of the circumstances.

Right I'm confused, if it wasn't intentional how do you know it was in no way an accident?

I've no idea what happened but what about this for a scenario (completely made up BTW)

The Cop goes into the office to pick up a piece of paperwork, something like a citation for court, a copy of a statement or similar. He knows where it will be and he should be in and out in a minute tops so he leaves the dogs in the car.
As he is inside someone trips one of the alarms, say for example a cop being attacked by a prisoner, and he rushes off to help them and ends up restraining a violent prisoner for some time.
In the rush and confusion he is busy trying to hold down someone and forgets the dogs are still in the back. By the time the situation calms down and he remembers it is all too late.

*IF* this was the case do you still think he deserves 6 months inside?

That wouldn't have been the case Derek, the copper was at the Force headquarters in Arnold he wouldn't have been on active duty at the time, he would have been on a break or on some sort of course.

---------- Post added at 03:51 ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

The dogs were in the handlers private vehicle, not a marked Police van.

So he wasn't on duty then? Therfore he needs treating like any other person on the street.

---------- Post added at 03:55 ---------- Previous post was at 03:51 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

So my example of what might of happened isn't acceptable? He should have left a colleague to get seriously injured or possibly killed while he wandered off to the car?

The handler is the only person that knows exactly what happened and how long they were in the car for, if he is at fault he will be punished for it. I guarantee he'll be horrified about the incident as well, the dogs after all were his companions almost 24/7.

Derek you way off beam there, the Force Headquarters is about 11 miles from the nearest town or city it's n the middle of no where so, him rushing off to help a mate or catch a mugger is not going to happen because there are plenty of other police stations closer to Nottingham.

The officer did wrong and needs charging for his wrong doings.

**Derek** · 03-07-2009, 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidge

That wouldn't have been the case Derek, the copper was at the Force headquarters in Arnold he wouldn't have been on active duty at the time, he would have been on a break or on some sort of course.

He may still have been called in to pick something up, it happens from time to time. That said if it was just a jolly and he went in for a chat then he will get whats coming to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidge

Derek you way off beam there, the Force Headquarters is about 11 miles from the nearest town or city it's n the middle of no where so, him rushing off to help a mate or catch a mugger is not going to happen because there are plenty of other police stations closer to Nottingham.

I'll bow to your greater local knowledge. I don't know if there are any cells or interview rooms in the building.
As I said it was just a possible scenario.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidge

The officer did wrong and needs charging for his wrong doings.

Yep. If he has been negligent then that needs addresses, no need to call for the maximum sentence before the facts are known though.

STONEISLAND · 03-07-2009, 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You ever been a police dog handler by any chance?

What does that have to do with the price of cheeses?

You ever worked on a jewellery store?

03-07-2009, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

He may still have been called in to pick something up, it happens from time to time. That said if it was just a jolly and he went in for a chat then he will get whats coming to him.

I'll bow to your greater local knowledge. I don't know if there are any cells or interview rooms in the building.
As I said it was just a possible scenario.

Yep. If he has been negligent then that needs addresses, no need to call for the maximum sentence before the facts are known though.

There are no cells or anything at the Force HQ Derek, it's in the middle of a wood. Like I mentioned it's 11 mile away from the centre of Nottingham and 11 miles from Mansfield the biggest town in the East Midlands. Lets hope he gets what is coming to him.