G20 Protests - Page 5

punky · 07-04-2009, 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaos23

Exclusive footage obtained by the Guardian shows Ian Tomlinson, who died during G20 protest, was attacked from behind by baton–wielding police officer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/g20-pol...-ian-tomlinson

Further evidence of the Police state that is developing in this country.

Right, OK. He stands still when he should be moved on, resists gentle efforts to move him on. A copper pushes him in the small of his back from a few inches away. Tomlinson then goes down like Ronaldo coincidently in front of a load of cameras. He then sits up, remonstrates, gets up, and walks out of shot. Then some time later, suddenly has a heart attack due solely down to the copper that pushed him? Right.

Also, i'd look up the definition of a police state if I were you. Funnily enough, your attitude of delcaring it police brutality without any due process or judicial involvement is far closer to the principals of a police state.

icestar2 · 07-04-2009, 20:12

Its a shame that this one idiot officers actions is probably going to put a bad name on the police as a whole again. Saying that none of them helped the guy up either.

Gary L · 07-04-2009, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Right, OK. He stands still when he should be moved on, resists gentle efforts to move him on. A copper pushes him in the small of his back from a few inches away. Tomlinson then goes down like Ronaldo coincidently in front of a load of cameras. He then sits up, remonstrates, gets up, and walks out of shot. Then some time later, suddenly has a heart attack due solely down to the copper that pushed him? Right.

You sound like the prosecution lawyer.
wasn't he supposed to have banged his head on the kerb as a result of being pushed?

icestar2 · 07-04-2009, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Right, OK. He stands still when he should be moved on, resists gentle efforts to move him on. A copper pushes him in the small of his back from a few inches away. Tomlinson then goes down like Ronaldo coincidently in front of a load of cameras. He then sits up, remonstrates, gets up, and walks out of shot. Then some time later, suddenly has a heart attack due solely down to the copper that pushed him? Right.

Also, i'd look up the definition of a police state if I were you. Funnily enough, your attitude of delcaring it police brutality without any due process or judicial involvement is far closer to the principals of a police state.

Dont know what video you were watching but it looks like he smacks his leg and then pushes him with the full force of his power to the ground. There was no need for that action. The guy was moving wether it was slowly or not it does not matter. The police are trained for these types of situations and I doubt these actions taken are what would be endorsed.

punky · 07-04-2009, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

You sound like the prosecution lawyer.
wasn't he supposed to have banged his head on the kerb as a result of being pushed?

Except there is no kerb stone? He doesn't appear to have any signs of a head injury. He fell on his front with his hands in front of him. He doesn't appear confused. The video isn't clear, but he doesn't appear to have any marks on his head. The person helping him up doesn't seem to be too troubled by it. He gets up and walks off calmly and in a straight fashion so he's not dizzy.

There is an investigation in place. I'm sure when its over we'll be a bit more wiser. Except for the same old suspects here who only see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. Even if it means ignoring concepts like presumption of innocence and due process. Its things like that which stop us being a police state.

mdean · 07-04-2009, 20:25

Terrible behaviour by the riot cop. The police are out of control at Demos now.

Caspar · 07-04-2009, 20:29

I watched, quite sadly, all of the events the day before G20 live on skynews.

It was quite the sham!... the police got the whole day spot on, or as near to it. I value living in a free and democratic society, and support and respect free speech and right to protest. However, there were some on that day who were there not to support any kind of environmental or other just cause, but to simply cause trouble... they just aggrovated the authorities all day and I'm not surprised if people got hurt.

The police did a damn fine job, and I value their efforts to keep these kind of idiotic thugs in control.

Those whom started or supported trouble that day are useless losers, and are a wart on society as a whole.

Gary L · 07-04-2009, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Except there is no kerb stone? He doesn't appear to have any signs of a head injury. He fell on his front with his hands in front of him. He doesn't appear confused. The video isn't clear, but he doesn't appear to have any marks on his head. The person helping him up doesn't seem to be too troubled by it. He gets up and walks off calmly and in a straight fashion so he's not dizzy.

There is an investigation in place. I'm sure when its over we'll be a bit more wiser. Except for the same old suspects here who only see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. Even if it means ignoring concepts like presumption of innocence and due process. Its things like that which stop us being a police state.

The video I saw he looked confused. I don't think it matters whether there was a kerb or not really. I'd say that the attack in itself could be seen as a contributing factor in him having a heart attack.
In the video I saw you couldn't even see how he fell, you say he fell with his hands in front of him?
edit: watching the video he does fall with his hands out in front.

Video

If it wasn't the protests and it was any man that hit his leg causing him to collapse, and then have a heart attack. it would probably be a factor then.

**Derek** · 07-04-2009, 20:33

I've merged this thread into the existing G20 protests thread

icestar2 · 07-04-2009, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caspar

I watched, quite sadly, all of the events the day before G20 live on skynews.

It was quite the sham!... the police got the whole day spot on, or as near to it. I value living in a free and democratic society, and support and respect free speech and right to protest. However, there were some on that day who were there not to support any kind of environmental or other just cause, but to simply cause trouble... they just aggrovated the authorities all day and I'm not surprised if people got hurt.

The police did a damn fine job, and I value their efforts to keep these kind of idiotic thugs in control.

Those whom started or supported trouble that day are useless losers, and are a wart on society as a whole.

Agreed but that does not excuse the officer in question for his actions in this case.

punky · 07-04-2009, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L

The video I saw he looked confused. I don't think it matters whether there was a kerb or not really. I'd say that the attack in itself could be seen as a contributing factor in him having a heart attack.

If it wasn't the protests and it was any man that hit his leg causing him to collapse, and then have a heart attack. it would probably be a factor then.

I think the confusion is a matter of perception (possibly subjectively). However, he moved on fairly swiftly. If he did bang his head, I would have thought it would be in his own self-interest to remain still and get medical attenion rather than move himself on. He doesn't hold his head or even point at it. He moves his hands in a movement that mimicks the push and it looks coordinated. Even if was concussed (which doesn't appear to be any evidence to support), that doesn't mean the heart attack was related. He might have been angry at the incident which caused the heart attack, but that's the same as being beaten to death as some would like to believe.

Its pointless trying to lay blame until a full investigation and legal recourse has been followed. That won't stop those who thinks this video backs up their own predjudices though.

Arthurgray50@blu · 07-04-2009, 20:41

I can never understand these protest's, They always have trouble makers, that causes thousands of pounds of damage, for what, absolutely, nothing, protestors keep doing it, but they won't win.

Caspar · 07-04-2009, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by icestar2

Agreed but that does not excuse the officer in question for his actions in this case.

I agree, I've seen the vid...but who knows what really happend, and the real cause of death!... He could have been like that because he's a dope head full of smack! or some thugs spotted him being pushed over by a copper, and thought "now's the time to set the coppers up" then dragged him into an alley and injected him with some heart attack drugs!?!?!?!?

who knows! but one incident cannot and should not delfect the good execution of the day's events by the police forces involved.

chaos23 · 07-04-2009, 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

Right, OK. He stands still when he should be moved on, resists gentle efforts to move him on. A copper pushes him in the small of his back from a few inches away. Tomlinson then goes down like Ronaldo coincidently in front of a load of cameras. He then sits up, remonstrates, gets up, and walks out of shot. Then some time later, suddenly has a heart attack due solely down to the copper that pushed him? Right.

Also, i'd look up the definition of a police state if I were you. Funnily enough, your attitude of delcaring it police brutality without any due process or judicial involvement is far closer to the principals of a police state.

Let me put a few things straight for you. He was NOT a protester, but a innocent member of the public. In the video the copper clearly HITs the man with a baton, the man is walking AWAY from the police with his hands in his pockets in a NON THREATENING manner. The Police then lunge at the man with a riot shield, pushing him over on the concrete floor.

The evidence is there, on video, for everyone to see. Thats all the evidence that any court would need.

If someone had hit a copper and he had died shortely after, you can be sure they would be arrested.

icestar2 · 07-04-2009, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caspar

I agree, I've seen the vid...but who knows what really happend, and the real cause of death!... He could have been like that because he's a dope head full of smack! or some thugs spotted him being pushed over by a copper, and thought "now's the time to set the coppers up" then dragged him into an alley and injected him with some heart attack drugs!?!?!?!?

who knows! but one incident cannot and should not delfect the good execution of the day's events by the police forces involved.

Lol while I wouldnt go so far as to say that I do agree that we have no idea why he died at this time and if it was anything at all to do with what happened with this officer. My only point is that the officer seems to be acting out of line in this case from what the video show's.