british jobs for british workers.

[Hugh]

But the foreman is in charge of/responsible for health and safety, along with the managment and workers - is he saying he's not doing his job?

And, once again, a link would be nice, Arthur.

[saabmania2]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

So lets run through a thought experiment shall we?
I run a business making life improving widgets, wages make up the largest proportion of my costs. I employ 100 people on the production line working 40 hours a week for minimum wage (£5.80/h)
The government hikes up the minimum wage to what? 20K? (median annual earnings)

My wage bill (excluding employers NI contributions) has gone up by nearly £800K

How do you propose I find the money to cover the increase?
Sack half the work force perhaps and bring in automation? Yum! Mass unemployment is always good isn't it?
Double the retail price of widgets maybe? But hang on, that would be hyperinflation, so ultimately those on minimum wage would be no better off, items would still cost the same proportion of their wages. Those over minimum wage would be much worse off meaning they have less money to spread around, stagnating the economy, perhaps causing it to collapse.

i don't really see your point
i don't know perhaps you could build better quality widgets or your selling too few for too little value (if people are paid more they have more) things would just cost more but pro rata to a higher income,
what would you have done if the national min wage never came about, would you have sat there scratching your rear and moaning because the govenment should subsidise your business, no i didn't think so

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Hi Foreverwar, l don't have a link for that article that l stated, BUT the article stated was that some workers from other countries, DON'T know anything the strict health and safety policies that we have in this country.

The British builders are some of the best we have, apart from a small ' cowboys' that we have out there, and do some great work,.

[simonsays]

The trouble is most people want to pay as little as possible for the product and then wonder why jobs are being out sourced, go to tesco's asda, school shirts for £2.00 Jeans for £10.00 shoes £10.00, you wouldn't be a able to turn the lights on and heat the factory at that price in the UK, until human rights and costs are the same around the world then cheaper labour coming into any country is always going to be a problem. We should think ourselves lucky

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Well yes, actually, it does. A private members' bill sponsored by 11 fellow back benchers is exactly what it says on the tin.

Not when you're wearing ultra polarised rose tinted specs it isn't. It's official party policy....

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

So lets run through a thought experiment shall we?
I run a business making life improving widgets, wages make up the largest proportion of my costs. I employ 100 people on the production line working 40 hours a week for minimum wage (£5.80/h)
The government hikes up the minimum wage to what? 20K? (median annual earnings)

My wage bill (excluding employers NI contributions) has gone up by nearly £800K

How do you propose I find the money to cover the increase?
Sack half the work force perhaps and bring in automation? Yum! Mass unemployment is always good isn't it?
Double the retail price of widgets maybe? But hang on, that would be hyperinflation, so ultimately those on minimum wage would be no better off, items would still cost the same proportion of their wages. Those over minimum wage would be much worse off meaning they have less money to spread around, stagnating the economy, perhaps causing it to collapse.

Sorry, who said the minimum wage was going to be increased to nine pounds sixty-one pence per hour?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

But that is from Christopher Chope, and being supported by the right-wing loonie brigage of Edward Leigh, Bill Cash, et al, who hark back to the days of She Who Must Be Obeyed; if I find a loonie-left backbenchers motion, will that mean that GB et al will be tarred with that?

Course it won't for some around here - no more than the shenanigans that Byers, Hewitt and Hoon have been getting up to will.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

To me a decent wage per hour is £6.50, a major problem is that some of this big major stores are making a mockery of low paid workers Tesco, Asda and worst of all Primark are buying goods cheap from abroad and charging the customers a lot of money and making huge profits, yet paying staff very low wages, and that is why there are lots of foriegn workers in there stores, as no one wants to work for low wages, l think that if every foriegbn worker went back to there own country, the british work trade would collaspe, as they wouldn't pay decent pay.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Chris

Well yes, actually, it does. A private members' bill sponsored by 11 fellow back benchers is exactly what it says on the tin.

Sooooo.......in other words plausible deniability, or do they not belong to the Tory party then?

[Osem]

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by saabmania2

i don't really see your point
i don't know perhaps you could build better quality widgets or your selling too few for too little value (if people are paid more they have more) things would just cost more but pro rata to a higher income,
what would you have done if the national min wage never came about, would you have sat there scratching your rear and moaning because the govenment should subsidise your business, no i didn't think so

Widget represents any item (goods or service) which can be provided for retail.
So if it helps get your head around it, replace widget with chickens, cars, pocket calculators, fruit, vegetables, car washing, houses, beanbags, insurance, internet access, tofu etc
Now, how plausible is it to grow an apple so much better that you can charge twice as much for it and still have the same number of sales?

Vastly increase a company's wage bill and unless they're extremely profitable (remember 100 workers suddenly moved onto the current median wage is a £800,000 increase) and can absorb the additional costs, they either have to be reclaimed by sacking staff, increasing prices, or as is more likely, both.
You may have noticed something in the news about BA staff going on strike over staff reductions as BA tries to cope with the loss of income.

If the minimum wage had never come about, company wage bills wouldn't have increased as much and the price of goods wouldn't have been forced up as much as they were.
Rather than having to pay someone £5.80/h I could find someone willing to work for £4 an hour and thus secure the business' future easier.

[rogerdraig]

and end up with higher taxes as paying the £4 would mean the government would have to maker it up to a living wage

any one working a 40 hour week should be on at least the minimum amount that is set as needed per week to live on

any thing else means everyone is support those businesses with subsides

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Sooooo.......in other words plausible deniability, or do they not belong to the Tory party then?

OK then.

Let's look at some Labour Backbenchers' Private Members Bills in recent years - are you stating that these have all come from, and are backed by, the Government?

Sally Keeble - The Alcohol Sales Bill urges the government to set up the minimum price. DIC would then advise it to set different prices depending on product, alcoholic strength, region and the type of establishment selling it. They also recommend the minimum price should be reviewed every year.

Andrew Dismore - Bill to introduce a national day to learn about and remember the Armenian Genocide

Paul Martin - Bill which aimed to ‘end all car parking charges across the NHS in Scotland’.

John McDonnell - Trade Union Rights and Freedoms Bill 2006-07

[Osem]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

OK then.

Let's look at some Labour Backbenchers' Private Members Bills in recent years - are you stating that these have all come from, and are backed by, the Government?

Sally Keeble - The Alcohol Sales Bill urges the government to set up the minimum price. DIC would then advise it to set different prices depending on product, alcoholic strength, region and the type of establishment selling it. They also recommend the minimum price should be reviewed every year.

Andrew Dismore - Bill to introduce a national day to learn about and remember the Armenian Genocide

Paul Martin - Bill which aimed to ‘end all car parking charges across the NHS in Scotland’.

John McDonnell - Trade Union Rights and Freedoms Bill 2006-07

Yeah but....., yeah but....., yeah but......

Yup, one rule for New Labour and another for everyone else.....

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Sooooo.......in other words plausible deniability, or do they not belong to the Tory party then?

That's called a 'false dilemma' Flyboy. I'm really not interested in sixth-form debating society games. If you don't want to examine the issues sensibly, then honestly, don't bother.