Christians told to treat atheists and agnostics with "deep esteem"

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by peanutkp

So if I take your word for the right interpretation, then alls well and good as far as I'm concerned.

So we can all carry on together, regardless of anyone's individual beliefs.
Ho hum, not even us at CF could put the world to rights on this question eh...

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

So seriously, are athiests on here genuinely annoyed at what has been said or are we just debating for the sake of it.

As Russ said he was addressing Christians (that is his words were aimed at Christians) and basically he is just reiterating a Chrisian belief that God exists for everyone. I can imagine people being annoyed if he was addressing christians and atheists alike, but its pretty clear that the audience he has aimed this to is a Christian one. And I don't think he has said anything detrimental about those who dont follow the faith.

I'm a properly, confirmed, dyed-in-the-wool, ex-member of the church atheist and, frankly, I'm totally not bothered about what he's said, mainly because it's obvious that he's (pun intended) preaching to the converted.

His comments actually have very little relevance to non-believers, so I really can't see what all the fuss is about

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

This thread is like the harry hill commercial break... Everyone just wants to FIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHT!!!!!!

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Thats a good point isnt it. You dont get people complaining when others say they are praying for them. I actually know some people who dont follow any religion, but whom have asked others to pray for them in times of need.

I complain.
Think about if prayer actually does help because it makes a diety intercede.
Think about why, and think about what the outcome would have to be if no prayer was said, ie no help given. Not a pleasant thought.
It makes me feel very uncomfortable.

Apart from that, it's the Drop-dead-fred to the rescue situation.
If I'm in such a situation where someone feels the need to pray for me, then I'd rather they got off their backside and actually helped as I would for them rather than leaving it up to their imaginary friend.

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by peanutkp

But on the otherhand hypothetically, what is also wrong about being prejudice about religion in general.

I'm in 2 minds as to whether that's a serious question or not. I'll assume it is.

You might as well ask what is wrong with being prejudice about someone's sexuality, gender, marital status, colour etc

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I complain.
Think about if prayer actually does help because it makes a diety intercede.
Think about why, and think about what the outcome would have to be if no prayer was said, ie no help given. Not a pleasant thought.
It makes me feel very uncomfortable.

Apart from that, it's the Drop-dead-fred to the rescue situation.
If I'm in such a situation where someone feels the need to pray for me, then I'd rather they got off their backside and actually helped as I would for them rather than leaving it up to their imaginary friend.

I think you're reading too deeply into simple sentiments. For example say you had Cancer. I couldn't cure it, Im not a doctor. I believe God could cure it, so I pray to him to ease your pain or to cure it. Its the best I can do in this situation. Wouldn't that make you feel better that someone who cant really do nothing about it is actually taking some time out to say a prayer for your wellbeing.

Now whether you're cured of cancer or not, thats my issue with God (if i want to question it that is), so at the end of teh day the result is pretty irrelevant to you. If you are cured I won't be saying to you its because God did it, but I would be thankful to God for curing you. The relatioonship between me and God is not relevant to you.

I think that makes sense, can you see what Im trying to say?

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I think you're reading too deeply into simple sentiments. For example say you had Cancer. I couldn't cure it, Im not a doctor. I believe God could cure it, so I pray to him to ease your pain or to cure it. Its the best I can do in this situation. Wouldn't that make you feel better that someone who cant really do nothing about it is actually taking some time out to say a prayer for your wellbeing.

Now whether you're cured of cancer or not, thats my issue with God (if i want to question it that is), so at the end of teh day the result is pretty irrelevant to you. If you are cured I won't be saying to you its because God did it, but I would be thankful to God for curing you. The relatioonship between me and God is not relevant to you.

I think that makes sense, can you see what Im trying to say?

I think what he's trying to say is he wouldn't want his life saved by a god he doesn't have much time for.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Russ B

I think what he's trying to say is he wouldn't want his life saved by a god he doesn't have much time for.

The Force is strong with that one..........

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I think you're reading too deeply into simple sentiments. For example say you had Cancer. I couldn't cure it, Im not a doctor. I believe God could cure it, so I pray to him to ease your pain or to cure it. Its the best I can do in this situation. Wouldn't that make you feel better that someone who cant really do nothing about it is actually taking some time out to say a prayer for your wellbeing.

Now whether you're cured of cancer or not, thats my issue with God (if i want to question it that is), so at the end of teh day the result is pretty irrelevant to you. If you are cured I won't be saying to you its because God did it, but I would be thankful to God for curing you. The relatioonship between me and God is not relevant to you.

I think that makes sense, can you see what Im trying to say?

If it were the case that your prayer would save my life, how do you think that would make me feel about all those who could have been saved but weren't because no one asked for it?
Sorry, but to me if someone has the direct ability to save someone, then they shouldn't need to be asked to do it, to require actually being asked to help to me is immoral.

If someone is hanging off a window ledge and you have the ability to grab their arm and pull them to safety, should you wait to be asked and if they slip think "Oh well, they didn't ask, it's their fault" or should you just get on and help them?

That's what prayer is if it works, and it says a lot about the deity being prayed to if that's what it takes for it to help, and none of it good.

A xian I worked with nearly lost his wife to food poisoning, she survived while the patient in the bed next to her died. He proclaimed it was because he prayed for her while the other patient's family didn't pray so the patient died. Nice.

[KaySquirrel]

So if a Christian goes to visit a friend in hospital, the expression of kindness and sympathy must depend on the beliefs of the hospitalized?

If the sick friend is Christian also, and the Christian says they will pray for them = no foul.

If the sick friend is agnostic, the Christian should say 'I will pray for you... Mayyyyybe!'

If the sick friend is athiest, the Christian should say 'I will not pray for you'.

If the sick friend believes in Drop-Dead-Fred, bringing a vase of gladiolas is right out!

You guys don't have it easy, do you? Seems easier to avoid visiting hours entirely.

Then again, I couldn't handle being an athiest either. If I had to spend all my time lecturing you presumptuous and condescending people who insist on blessing my every sneeze, my colds would last for weeks!

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

A xian I worked with nearly lost his wife to food poisoning, she survived while the patient in the bed next to her died. He proclaimed it was because he prayed for her while the other patient's family didn't pray so the patient died. Nice.

Do you judge all Christians on what he said? Do you believe we all share that views?

[Incognitas]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If it were the case that your prayer would save my life, how do you think that would make me feel about all those who could have been saved but weren't because no one asked for it?
Sorry, but to me if someone has the direct ability to save someone, then they shouldn't need to be asked to do it, to require actually being asked to help to me is immoral.

If someone is hanging off a window ledge and you have the ability to grab their arm and pull them to safety, should you wait to be asked and if they slip think "Oh well, they didn't ask, it's their fault" or should you just get on and help them?

That's what prayer is if it works, and it says a lot about the deity being prayed to if that's what it takes for it to help, and none of it good.

A xian I worked with nearly lost his wife to food poisoning, she survived while the patient in the bed next to her died. He proclaimed it was because he prayed for her while the other patient's family didn't pray so they died. Nice.

Xaccers you cannot lay wholesale blame on everyone of faith for these short comings in some who think like this.Not every theist would subscribe to that sort of thinking.You cannot lay all the ills of a few on all.That is simply not fair.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Do you judge all Christians on what he said? Do you believe we all share that views?

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Xaccers you cannot lay wholesale blame on everyone of faith for these short comings in some who think like this.Not every theist would subscribe to that sort of thinking.You cannot lay all the ills of a few on all.That is simply not fair.

If you believe prayer brings benefit to the sick for instance, surely you believe a lack of prayer brings no benefit?

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

If you believe prayer brings benefit to the sick for instance, surely you believe a lack of prayer brings no benefit?

Could you answer the questions please?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Could you answer the questions please?

He believes that prayer brings benefit, most religious people I know also believe this, otherwise, why bother praying if it adds nothing.
That view is something experience has shown to be shared amongst many xians.
The view that people die because they weren't prayed for is also shared amongst many xians.

Now, would you be so kind as to answer my question?