Christians told to treat atheists and agnostics with "deep esteem"

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Enuff

Can people be part-time christians?

Do you mean like what Bart Simpson said to the devil when offered a second chance and he replies, "I think Ill go for a life of drink and debauchery and then go for the deathbed conversion". That way he enjoys the best things in life, but still books his place in heaven through the maxim "there's more joy in heaven over a sinner repenting"

[kirk1690]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Do you mean like what Bart Simpson said to the devil when offered a second chance and he replies, "I think Ill go for a life of drink and debauchery and then go for the deathbed conversion". That way he enjoys the best things in life, but still books his place in heaven through the maxim "there's more joy in heaven over a sinner repenting"

or what about the one when homer found out the cult he joined didnt allow drinking and the leader said to homer " would you rather have everlasting peace and spiritual fulfilment in a world without pain or disease or would you rather have alcohol and homer replies " what kind of alcohol?"

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

To a point he is correct however his quotation is inaccurant and I will demonstrate why tomorrow.

I look forward to it.

I was hoping never to bring up your accusations of abuse again (you at least had the testicular fortitude to admit that's what you believed, unlike others) however I'm off to bed now so I'll leave eveyone else to read the above and form their own opinion.

Rubbish, you had no need to bring it up except to try and make me look bad, such a shame you don't have the "testicular fortitude" to admit that. It has nothing to do with your untrustworthiness.
Brainwashing a child is abuse just as constantly calling a child stupid is, or shouting at them for the littleist things. Abuse doesn't have to be broken bones, or sexual, it can be as subtle as constantly calling a daughter "a big girl"
You obviously don't have a problem with it. I would never restrict my own children in such a manner.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by kirk1690

or what about the one when homer found out the cult he joined didnt allow drinking and the leader said to homer " would you rather have everlasting peace and spiritual fulfilment in a world without pain or disease or would you rather have alcohol and homer replies " what kind of alcohol?"

Another great quote, there have been some really good religious digs on the Simpson's, pity we no longer get it on VM, hopefully that will change in time though. The above quote, wasn't that from the episode with the "leader" and the lima beans?

[kirk1690]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Another great quote, there have been some really good religious digs on the Simpson's, pity we no longer get it on VM, hopefully that will change in time though. The above quote, wasn't that from the episode with the "leader" and the lima beans?

it was from the one where the leader flies out at the end in the spaceship and the outer covers fall off to reveal the leader pedalling on a bike surrounded by dollar bags

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I look forward to it.




Rubbish, you had no need to bring it up except to try and make me look bad, such a shame you don't have the "testicular fortitude" to admit that. It has nothing to do with your untrustworthiness.
Brainwashing a child is abuse just as constantly calling a child stupid is, or shouting at them for the littleist things. Abuse doesn't have to be broken bones, or sexual, it can be as subtle as constantly calling a daughter "a big girl"
You obviously don't have a problem with it. I would never restrict my own children in such a manner.

I have to agree with you Xaccers, Ive seen programs where in the US 4 and 5 year old children are told they are sinners and that god doesn't love them, until they are reborn into this particular church. A young child who is frightened into "worshiping" a loving god by their own parents is despicable.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I look forward to it.




Rubbish, you had no need to bring it up except to try and make me look bad, such a shame you don't have the "testicular fortitude" to admit that. It has nothing to do with your untrustworthiness.
Brainwashing a child is abuse just as constantly calling a child stupid is, or shouting at them for the littleist things. Abuse doesn't have to be broken bones, or sexual, it can be as subtle as constantly calling a daughter "a big girl"
You obviously don't have a problem with it. I would never restrict my own children in such a manner.

I think associating child abuse with bringing up a child to follow a particular faith trivalises and detracts from the real issues of child abuse. I am teaching my 3 year old daughter about Islam, she is aware of whats halal and whats haraam to eat, she often goes to the mosque with me, she recites some prayers, and she has a devloping understanding of Islam.

I dont think you can associate that with child abuse. I am giving her a moral upbringing based on my values and my faith. A believer of any religion could turn the argument around and call an athiest a child abuser for not showing their children the 'right way'.

I dont think Russ forces his daughter to follow christian values, it just comes natural because he is a christian and I dont see him hurting his daughter in his actions.

[Jefferson T]

This is going off topic - can we return to that topic now please.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I have to agree with you Xaccers, Ive seen programs where in the US 4 and 5 year old children are told they are sinners and that god doesn't love them, until they are reborn into this particular church. A young child who is frightened into "worshiping" a loving god by their own parents is despicable.

I think it all depends in the manner in which your teaching your child to follow a particular faith. There are extremes everywhere, and thats where we start having problems and serious issues. However the majority of parents I know, whatever religion they follow, do not teach their kids religion in the way described above.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I have to agree with you Xaccers, Ive seen programs where in the US 4 and 5 year old children are told they are sinners and that god doesn't love them, until they are reborn into this particular church. A young child who is frightened into "worshiping" a loving god by their own parents is despicable.

It doesn't even take as much as that to harm a growing mind.
I know adults who had "normal" religious upbringings damaged psychologically and intellectually because of it.
Such a pity.


Sorry dilli, my interweb is running slow.

[kirk1690]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I have to agree with you Xaccers, Ive seen programs where in the US 4 and 5 year old children are told they are sinners and that god doesn't love them, until they are reborn into this particular church. A young child who is frightened into "worshiping" a loving god by their own parents is despicable.

As our great leader richard dawkins says children should never be called catholics or muslims or jws but they should be described as children of muslim or catholic parents . Children will believe anything at that age.

[frogstamper]

If religion is such a beneficial part of life, why not let the child find that out for themselves when they are of an age to make rational choices? not just indoctrinate them from birth. Surely religious people believe god gave us free will, if so let children make their own minds up without parental pressure, it just seems insidious to me that some children have religion forced on them when they are at their most vulnerable.

[Mick]

Reminder about our sites terms of use:-

Particularly the section which states:-

Forum Use

You agree that you will not:

1. Provoke others or cause trouble. If you wish to argue with people then go to instant messenger or email.

2. Make personal attacks on anyone during your use of the forum. Do not abuse someone for example, because of their race, colour, sex, or religious beliefs.

Some members would do well to calm down and not get too personal. I've seen some pretty ridiculous comments from one or two members trying to bait someone for their own beliefs - this is unacceptable and it will not be tolerated - If I have to enter this thread again to act on a post - the thread will close and the person(s) responsible for its closure will be dealt with accordingly and If I see anyone argue with this request - their account will be suspended for one week. I have had enough of the playground type bickering going on around here lately. Enough is enough.

[Enuff]

Just look at the state the world's in today, How can there be a God? There's more evidence for there being evil at work - Satan.

The sad news is, we're owned by the system. No? Then try breaking away from it, If you are a true Christian, follow your faith to the book. You can't be a Christian and work with the devil at the same time. No wonder the worlds in such a mess.

Jesus indicated that those who practiced hypocrisy would be sent to hell.

[joker]

A very interesting thread. However, I see cannot see the point in arguing about beliefs. I myself, do not rule out the the existence of god. I'm not a fond believer of religion - so i guess that makes me more of a theist.

I consider myself an understanding person, and can understand why some none-believers / agnostics may find it patronizing to be told 'god is with you' or lines of a similar nature.

It does not mean that you have to take the words in a literal sense, but more understand the meaning of it. If someone was to speak such words to you, then you know they are only trying to comfort you in the best way they know how. I would find someone who takes aggression to this somewhat ignorant. - You do not have to be a believer to place yourself in someone else's shoes. It is fair to say that this could work both ways, however not every believer will act in such a stereotypical manner.

Opposites fail to attract. In this instance you will only ever agree to disagree.