Christians told to treat atheists and agnostics with "deep esteem"

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

@point 1 I disagree that there is a difference there. The message as I see it is treat people well because you would like them to treat you well . Its not kick them in the head cuz you dont mind one too

It's how the message is interpreted that makes the two different.
As I said in my other example, a xian would have no problem with another xian sharing their religious beliefs with them, and so wouldn't think twice about doing it to others, I've been on the recieving end of it many times, and I actually find it rather unpleasant. I don't believe in the xian god, and even if it did exist, the last thing I'd do is worship it (won't go into what I would do, it tends to upset Russ).

@point 3 I thought you were actually stating it against an individual . There has been none of that since the ransom was paid .You say you have experience of JW's so you know how I see the end of days. Everyone not in the Truth(which does include me) will die at armageddon but anyone who has already suffered death will get resurrected to do on Earth as it is in Heaven . Do you know the rest of the JW belief of the afterlife?

As in: What afterlife? When you die you die. No sleeping, no heaven, in the ground awaiting judgment day when you'll be brought back to life and then slaughtered again if you don't cut the mustard. Those who do make it will have all their bad experiences removed from their minds (which always reminds me of that great Kirk speach from ST5 "I need my pain"), and they'll be perfect humans, so anyone who's infertile will be able to have kids, anyone with Parkinsons will be cured, halleluja, what a great way to gather more followers (like my old boss who's wife was infertile, or a friend's dad who believed if he was a good JW his late dad would get the benefit and come back - it's things like that which make me mad at humankind).
Oh and 144000 (hebrew slang for a large number) will spend eternity in heaven.

How can someone who has true faith not think that their God loves you too? He wouldnt be a loving Gd if he didnt but how does me thinking my God loves you push anything onto you?

It does when you start involving me in your beliefs. Keep it to yourself, show a little respect.
The bible gives plenty of evidence for not being a loving god though.

[kirk1690]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

So your 2000 years old .been burned and torchured then? hope you went to the hostpital with that

we now see a very disrespectful post here much worse than what was in the OP

This is a classic believer trait and ploy , we have to respect them and their beliefs .Why do we ?

[Jefferson T]

Well I try to respect others beliefs and views because it's polite and I see no reason not to be.

And that's despite some deeply upsetting abuse from some religious groups that have visited me at my home and hurled abuse at me.

I do realise that all of them (in that group) are not the same.

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

It does when you start involving me in your beliefs. Keep it to yourself, show a little respect.

In the 5 years this site has been running, can you show me any examples where anyone has involved you in their beliefs?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

The bible gives plenty of evidence for not being a loving god though.

Time after time I have shown you where you have taken scripture out of context to create this 'evidence'. Continually repeating it does not make it correct.

[zinglebarb]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

It's how the message is interpreted that makes the two different.
As I said in my other example, a xian would have no problem with another xian sharing their religious beliefs with them, and so wouldn't think twice about doing it to others, I've been on the recieving end of it many times, and I actually find it rather unpleasant. I don't believe in the xian god, and even if it did exist, the last thing I'd do is worship it (won't go into what I would do, it tends to upset Russ).



As in: What afterlife? When you die you die. No sleeping, no heaven, in the ground awaiting judgment day when you'll be brought back to life and then slaughtered again if you don't cut the mustard. Those who do make it will have all their bad experiences removed from their minds (which always reminds me of that great Kirk speach from ST5 "I need my pain"), and they'll be perfect humans, so anyone who's infertile will be able to have kids, anyone with Parkinsons will be cured, halleluja, what a great way to gather more followers (like my old boss who's wife was infertile, or a friend's dad who believed if he was a good JW his late dad would get the benefit and come back - it's things like that which make me mad at humankind).
Oh and 144000 (hebrew slang for a large number) will spend eternity in heaven.



It does when you start involving me in your beliefs. Keep it to yourself, show a little respect.
The bible gives plenty of evidence for not being a loving god though.

But the op was telling his followers to respect your views and said God has love for you. That does not make a difference to you does it? why is it so upsetting? Im not upset that you do not believe what I do. I am not in the slightest way upset that you may think me foolish for my beliefs. Your thoughts on the matter make no difference to me so why does mine or the Archbishops on you?

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

but your quite happy being brainwashed by society to conform from birth to death without issue

I'm not brainwashed by society at all, I live my life by my own code. I try to be decent, honest, respectful to others & helpful at all times.

I don't need a deity or society to mold me...

[kirk1690]

Originally Posted by Russ B

There is no harm whatsoever in believing that our God is in the hearts of ALL men and women. Personally I don't undestand why those who do not (or cannot) share this belief take such offense at it. Islamics would have me believe Allah is god - I don't get offended. I believe them to be very wrong but patronising? I think that's just overdoing the 'persecuted atheist' bit.

eh are you in the truth russ b?

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

I'm not brainwashed by society at all, I live my life by my own code. I try to be decent, honest, respectful to others & helpful at all times.

Because society has taught you that's the best way to be?

---------- Post added at 23:10 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------

Originally Posted by kirk1690

eh are you in the truth russ b?

[zinglebarb]

Originally Posted by kirk1690

This is a classic believer trait and ploy , we have to respect them and their beliefs .Why do we ?

I refer you to what I said to X . It makes no difference to me what you think or feel about me. I was simply pointing out the irony of how more disrespectful your post was to believers than what was in the OP. Your post was nasty with nasty intent

[Incognitas]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

There is the Athiest's golden rule:

Don't do to others what you don't want them to do to you
(somewhat more respectful than the christians golden rule of do unto others as you would have them do unto you)

Personally, I try and treat people with the respect that they deserve, which of course changes with their actions.
Someone for instance who is able to enter into a theological discussion without mentioning:
the usual suspects
waaaah the athiests are bashing me
religion is the cause of all wars
the bible's totally made up

will get plenty of respect from me (ie Towney) where as I'm sure someone who tells you that it's tough luck that your family should die at the command of their god wouldn't get much respect from you.

Sorry but as an atheist I can see you've twisted that one..


I am sick of the intolerance shown by my fellow atheists on this forum towards those who have faith.Whatever has happened to the fair,understanding and sympathetic British character in regards to the right to worship as one chooses without being attacked at every turn.I thought we had moved on from religious persecution?I thought this was the 21st Century and that freedom of belief is a human right.

As for the total rubbish about atheists being picked on..I've never been picked on for my lack of belief and I've never seen or heard of ANYONE being thus abused.Can anyone actually provide any such evidence?

I can see I won't be able to stay around this thread for long or I will be getting an infraction or two...

[kirk1690]

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

So your 2000 years old .been burned and torchured then? hope you went to the hostpital with that

we now see a very disrespectful post here much worse than what was in the OP

or is it you who is in "the truth"

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

Sorry but as an atheist I can see you've twisted that one..


I am sick of the intolerance shown by my fellow atheists on this forum towards those who have faith.Whatever has happened to the fair,understanding and sympathetic British character in regards to the right to worship as one chooses without being attacked at every turn.I thought we had moved on from religious persecution?I thought this was the 21st Century and that freedom of belief is a human right.

As for the total rubbish about atheists being picked on..I've never been picked on for my lack of belief and I've never seen or heard of ANYONE being thus abused.Can anyone actually provide any such evidence?

I can see I won't be able to stay around this thread for long or I will be getting an infraction or two...

PLEASE Coggy stick around....threads like these need excellent posts like yours

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Russ B

Well...yes it is. You permit those with views on other subjects to speak their minds and air their views in public but when it comes to faith or religion, we're to keep it quiet. I'm sorry but the world doesn't work that way. If we live in a society with free speech then we cannot dictate what others talk about around us, regardless of how much we tire of hearing it. For example Arsenal supporters continue to bleat on about how good they think their side is despite evidence to the contrary. I don't want to hear it but I tolerate it.

Not too much to ask is it?

If they respected you, they'd ask if you'd like to hear about it first wouldn't they?
Perhaps that's the issue, you don't know what respect is and how to show it?

On a public forum, people answer the question by participating, similarly with TV programs, don't like it, don't watch it (ask a different mod to monitor it even).

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by kirk1690

or is it you who is in "the truth"

Ahh, you were asking do I think my beliefs are 'right'? Well yes of course I do.

[zinglebarb]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

I'm not brainwashed by society at all, I live my life by my own code. I try to be decent, honest, respectful to others & helpful at all times.

I don't need a deity or society to mold me...

I believe that if you actually fully analyzed it you would see your code is heavily influenced by society and culture . I am programed by society. I am expected to live my life to the path society dictates. At least 12 years at school the 40+ years working most my life with the hope of a few years before death to enjoy my freedom? isnt that programming? we have to have money to live we want material goods we need cars well we dont really but society dictates we should have them to be a success and worthwhile contributed to society. Then we have rules and laws dictated by society whether we agree with them or not we live by them. Every single one of use is programmed by society and culture ,we think we have free will but not of us are really free.



I also did far to much lsd in the early 90's