your loved one is alone, bleeding to death......

kronas · 27-04-2008, 00:28

a paramedic arrives on the scene, in a rapid response car..... but cannot help because he or she is alone:

Quote:

Mairi Lennon, 35, wanted to help Stuart Baillie, 19, who had been stabbed in the neck, but she was ordered to wait in her car because she was alone.

She had to wait for 13 minutes for police back-up to arrive and by then the teenager had died.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...6/npara126.xml

would you risk your life to help someone else ? i thought the point of these 'rapid response' cars was to do just that....

**Maggy J** · 27-04-2008, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

a paramedic arrives on the scene, in a rapid response car..... but cannot help because he or she is alone:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...6/npara126.xml

would you risk your life to help someone else ? i thought the point of these 'rapid response' cars was to do just that....

I can see a lawsuit coming.

SMG · 27-04-2008, 01:03

That is an absolute disgrace. She will live with that for a long time.

More to the point, where were the cops? If this paramedic cannot attend a victim without someone else, why was she alone in the first place? They obviously knew there was a problem.

Would they have given the same order to a male paramedic? I don't think so.
These "one man" medics can be life savers if they are allowed to do their job.

joglynne · 27-04-2008, 01:05

What is the point of sending a one person rapid response unit out on a call if the paramedic is not allowed to do their job on their own.

To a certain extent, and in certain high risk areas, I can understand that it could well be dangerous but under these circumstances I would expect a fully manned ambulance to sent out.

Cost cutting exercises are all very well but this, to my mind, is insane. I can't believe the Procurator Fiscal would not have brought the Ambulance Service to task.

**David F** · 27-04-2008, 01:17

perhaps they didnt realise it was an armed assault when they were called. Would you risk your life for a stranger. I dunno but id risk my life for a loved one.

bopdude · 27-04-2008, 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

Would they have given the same order to a male paramedic? I don't think so.
These "one man" medics can be life savers if they are allowed to do their job.

IIRC yes they would, the police have to secure the area in case the victim's attacker is still around, still, sad all the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinglebarb

perhaps they didnt realise it was an armed assault when they were called. Would you risk your life for a stranger. I dunno but id risk my life for a loved one.

Spot on

If you knew there was someone with a knife, you would think twice about going in, I know I would, it's called self preservation, sorry if that seems selfish.

Vlad_Dracul · 27-04-2008, 08:43

Health and Safety...its one of the modern mantras..a bit like inclusion and diversity. they trip easily off the tongue,convenient excuses for failure.

**Rob M** · 27-04-2008, 10:09

I think the key problem/failure here was the time it took the police to attend the scene.

The paramedic was told exactly the right thing, stay in the car.

The first thing that you're taught on any course for life saving/first aid is that rule #1 is that you don't do anything that could put you at risk. The teenager involved had been stabbed and there was a good chance that the person that did it wouldn't have thought twice about stabbing the paramedic.

If the paramedic had been stabbed and killed trying to save this one boy they wouldn't have been able to save the many lives that I'm sure they will go on to save during the course of their career from this point on.

She had a decision to make, whether to do as she was told or to try to save the boy but put her own life at very serious risk. She chose the former.

I know that sounds harsh, but that's the way it has to be. It's terrible that this person died, but that's not the fault of the paramedic involved and it's not really the fault of the police (although they must be called to answer why it took so long to respond to an incident of this nature) - the person wielding the knife is the only person completely responsible, and that's a society problem.

Whilst we continue to tolerate a culture where disrespect, intolerence, violence, and an inability (or unwillingness) to punish the guilty are the norm we can only look forward to things getting worse.

For the record, I don't know what I would have done in a similar situation, and I hope to God I never have to find out.

Osem · 27-04-2008, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raistlin

I think the key problem/failure here was the time it took the police to attend the scene.

True but even when they get there they don't always do much.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...ixnewstop.html

foreverwar · 27-04-2008, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Health and Safety...its one of the modern mantras..a bit like inclusion and diversity. they trip easily off the tongue,convenient excuses for failure.

Once again, trite phrases that have no relevance to the item in hand - it wasn't "elf & safety", it was that could have been a violent criminal still in the area, who had just stabbed someone, so it was about protecting the paramedic.

But why let facts get in the way of a "cheap shot" diatribe.

TheDaddy · 27-04-2008, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by joglynne

What is the point of sending a one person rapid response unit out on a call if the paramedic is not allowed to do their job on their own.

The doctor suggested that my mother might be better of in hospital last week and arranged for an ambulance to take her, none blue light, imagine my supprise when a single paramedic (if he indeed was one!!) turned up with a blue light flashing, he insisted on asking my mother a whole load of questions she was in no state to answer and when asked if he wanted to speak to the doctor he replied 'there is no point the doctor knows best' in which case why are you there? All the information was given prior to his arrival.

Vlad_Dracul · 27-04-2008, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Once again, trite phrases that have no relevance to the item in hand - it wasn't "elf & safety", it was that could have been a violent criminal still in the area, who had just stabbed someone, so it was about protecting the paramedic.

But why let facts get in the way of a "cheap shot" diatribe.

OK heres another one...Risk assessment.

Nidge · 27-04-2008, 13:42

If I were the Paramedic I'd have got out of the car and helped the person who needed help.

**Derek S** · 27-04-2008, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

More to the point, where were the cops?

Probably dealing with other calls, even after they would have got a call from ambulance control with 2nd hand information, by the time it's passed over the ambulance is well on its way.
The Police then have to find a free double crewed car, get them to drop what they are doing and get to the scene. On a Friday/Saturday night that can be an issue, you can't just open a new bag of Polis when something breaks, you have to work with what you have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

If this paramedic cannot attend a victim without someone else, why was she alone in the first place?

Because for cases where there isn't any immediate danger to the paramedic they can be a lifesafer by being there a couple of minutes before another, double crewed, ambulance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMG

Would they have given the same order to a male paramedic? I don't think so.

Yes they would have. Gender doesn't come into it. There are also plenty of occasions where double crewed ambulances won't go near a victim unless the Police are there.

It's a tragic incident and sad that Paramedics have to even contemplate not being able to help someone in case a buckfast quaffing ned decides to take them on. I can understand people taking on the Police (although I hope anytime someone does they get hammered by the courts) but for the life of me cannot think why anyone would attack firecrews, ambulance workers or doctors.

It's also disgraceful the killer managed to get away with murder after they purposely went out armed with knives, stabbed someone in the neck and then claimed it wasn't meant to kill them...

oh and then boast about it to a local taxi driver.
11 years (out in 5 and a bit) for murder. What a joke this country is turning into.

**Stuart C** · 27-04-2008, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

would you risk your life to help someone else ? i thought the point of these 'rapid response' cars was to do just that....

None of our emergency services are expected to risk their lives to save others. All of them have procedures in place to help protect their staff.

I am a qualified First Aider, and one of the foundations of our training is risk assessment. You assess the situation and if you feel you are likely to be in danger, you can call for help, but you don't risk your own life.