Mugabe - could it all be over for the hero turned tyrant?

[homealone]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

That would be a good plan IF only the situation was on a level playing field.We (the west) set up the unequal trading situations,countries in the west were the ones who colonised Africa and then one by one abandoned them to revert back to the stone age.Finally IF we don't help them to help themselves(not necessarily with money or aid) by getting them to be equal partners in trade then they are a mill stone around the world's collective neck for another 50 odd years at least.

Absolutely, but now we are gone they don't want us back & I really do think intervening will only be 'spun' as interference??

- I do sincerely wish I could feel more 'humanitarian' than this about an appalling situation, but where - e.g. Burma, North Korea, do we draw a line - to be honest I think we should concentrate on our own problems ..

- and I do realise how horrible that sounds, but it is based on concentrating effort on what might be changed - not that which probably won't??

[Damien]

I do not see any moral reason we should not intervene in country’s where human rights are being so horribly abused. We can’t, morally, distance ourselves with the justification that is “not our place”. The fact is few countries have the resources to be able to intervene and if we can’t pretend it’s not our problem, especially when our wealth in partly at the expense of places like Africa.

Practically though, we can’t, if we went in Mugabe would commit his entire country’s resources to trying to keep power. He would lose, but at the expense of so much of the little remaining country there is, the people would suffer even more, there would be little military to keep order once we leave so we could be stuck there for ages.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I'd rather be the Good Samaritan than the folk who pass by on the other side of the road because it's nothing to do with them...and it is time for the international community to be the equivalent of the Good Samaritan.Sometimes people are not in a position to help themselves.

The problem is we use money and resources doing that and we have people dying in wars that are nothing to do with defending our country and the government handing out foreign aid when people are homeless and in poverty in their own country. If they sort their own house out first I will have less of an issue with it.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

The problem is we use money and resources doing that and we have people dying in wars that are nothing to do with defending our country and the government handing out foreign aid when people are homeless and in poverty in their own country. If they sort their own house out first I will have less of an issue with it.

How can they when we meddle by propping up people like Mugabe,allowing arms to be sold to anyone with money and make damn sure that no one in Africa gets a fair crack of the whip trade wise unless they have the power to stop us. Then some companies resort to bribery to have the right to drain the natural resources and those we bribe are selling their countries future wealth and using the money to set up off shore accounts with the money that should be spent on improving the lot of the average African.The international banks very obligingly turn a blind eye to this and so it goes on and on...

If all that sounds far fetched how about this

The ordinary people of Africa truly deserve better but they have never been treated as anything but a continent/people to be exploited.

[homealone]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

How can they when we meddle by propping up people like Mugabe,allowing arms to be sold to anyone with money and make damn sure that no one in Africa gets a fair crack of the whip trade wise unless they have the power to stop us. Then some companies resort to bribery to have the right to drain the natural resources and those we bribe are selling their countries future wealth and using the money to set up off shore accounts with the money that should be spent on improving the lot of the average African.The international banks very obligingly turn a blind eye to this and so it goes on and on...

If all that sounds far fetched how about this

The ordinary people of Africa truly deserve better but they have never been treated as anything but a continent/people to be exploited.

so true, but I still maintain they should sort out their own problems - which could mean being united as an African Federation of Republican Nations - for example - or even a democratic society - if the tribal leader culture was ever subsumed ...

[Nidge]

If the country was full of oil there would have been something done years ago.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Nidge

If the country was full of oil there would have been something done years ago.

Huh! Well very little has been done about Nigeria in the last 30/40 years because they do happen to have a stable government for the last 30 years...even if it is a military dictatorship.Plenty of oil there and many of the smaller tribes have been trampled on in the rush for bribe money..including my adoptive tribe the Tiv's.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Let African nations settle African problems ?

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Let African nations settle African problems ?

And then you will be the first to complain about the migrants,immigrants and illegal immigrants from that continent who find their way to our shores seeking a better life.

IF we can sort out Africa we might,just might save ourselves.

[WHISTLED]

Interesting thread - I also dont think we should physically get involved, the only sensible method of stopping the madness is assasination, but we dont do that any more.... apparently. The US do but I dont think they care much.

Its not even like they can have a civil war and fight it out - The Mugabe has the military in his pocket and treats them well.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

And then you will be the first to complain about the migrants,immigrants and illegal immigrants from that continent who find their way to our shores seeking a better life.

IF we can sort out Africa we might,just might save ourselves.

Are you suggesting that African nations cannot sort out problems with their neighbours?

Surely they have the necessary intelligence,influence,negotiating skills and force if necessary?

The Brits have had their fingeres burned in Africa in the past and are still held to account for it many years later. We do not want a repeat of that.

It should not affect us as all we need to do is erect an iron curtain. Unfortunatly,as you suggest,it may well affect us as our backward Government has surrendered its border controls and so no one is checking who comes and who goes.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Are you suggesting that African nations cannot sort out problems with their neighbours?

Surely they have the necessary intelligence,influence,negotiating skills and force if necessary?

The Brits have had their fingeres burned in Africa in the past and are still held to account for it many years later. We do not want a repeat of that.

It should not affect us as all we need to do is erect an iron curtain. Unfortunatly,as you suggest,it may well affect us as our backward Government has surrendered its border controls and so no one is checking who comes and who goes.

No I'm suggesting that certain developed(and developing ) governments/business's have a vested interest in keeping Africa poor and dependent so they can make money hand over fist from that continent.

[papa smurf]

just seen a report on bbc news and due to masive inflation it now costs allmost $ 5 billion [zim dollar] to buy a sandwich ,the country is ruined.

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

No I'm suggesting that certain developed(and developing ) governments/business's have a vested interest in keeping Africa poor and dependent so they can make money hand over fist from that continent.

Exactly so the UK shouldnt touch it with a barge pole. We dont want to be held responsible for exploiting Africa.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracul

Exactly so the UK shouldnt touch it with a barge pole. We dont want to be held responsible for exploiting Africa.

TOO LATE! We already did.