NUT opposes army recruitment in schools

[Osem]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7311917.stm

Given what's happening in some of our schools perhaps the recruitment of teachers ought to be looked into also. I wonder if all our aspiring teachers are given the whole truth about what life as a 21st century teacher can be like? You know the appalling behaviour, abuse, physical/verbal attacks etc., coupled with the lack of real deterrents and, all too often, a lack of support from the system when things go wrong.

There are also claims that the forces are targeting schools in deprived areas - presumably the implication being that the children will be so desperate for a job they'll consider anything. Well what's wrong with that? If they targeted mainly the likes of Eton and Harrow they'd be accused of being prejudiced against the children of poorer people. Might they not simply be targeting those areas/sschools which they feel will provide the number/type of recruits they need - horses for courses?

[foreverwar]

From the article
"A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "We do not recruit in schools.
"The single-service schools teams visit about 1,000 schools a year between them only at the invitation of the school - with the aim of raising the general awareness of their armed forces in society, not to recruit." "

Methinks in this case, the NUT delegates are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7311917.stm

Given what's happening in some of our schools perhaps the recruitment of teachers ought to be looked into also. I wonder if all our aspiring teachers are given the whole truth about what life as a 21st century teacher can be like? You know the appalling behaviour, abuse, physical/verbal attacks etc., coupled with the lack of real deterrents and, all too often, a lack of support from the system when things go wrong.

There are also claims that the forces are targeting schools in deprived areas - presumably the implication being that the children will be so desperate for a job they'll consider anything. Well what's wrong with that? If they targeted mainly the likes of Eton and Harrow they'd be accused of being prejudiced against the children of poorer people. Might they not simply be targeting those areas/sschools which they feel will provide the number/type of recruits they need - horses for courses?

I agree you can imagine the uproar if the army just visited private and independent schools. Personally I don't think the NUTs position is credible, I believe it is politically motivated due to their stance against the Iraq war.
After hearing this teacher from east London this morning on radio 5 talking at the conference, he was saying the army should be telling the kids about the horrors of war, the "poor" treatment they will receive back in the UK and a host of other negative aspects. I might be in agreement IF the recruiting officer was sitting at the exit with a pen in his hand ready to sign a 16 year old up for 2 years, but obviously this is not the case. The only losers from this will be the kids in these schools, who now will not even be given the chance to consider a career in the forces. Well done you NUTs

[RizzyKing]

All this is as usual is the NUT seeing what they think is a bandwagon (supposed public hostility towards forces) and they are jumping on with both feet. If they want to discuss something at their little gatherings how about performance related pay. I believe there are still many good teachers i also believe there are many bad ones and it only takes one to affect standards. While i believe all workers have a basic right to representation and someone to fight for them when things are wrong the very reasons unionus came into being i don't feel workers are now the main concern for the unions these days it is more about the power of the union not the good it can do for its members.

[roadwolf]

If the army needs recruits, they only need to wait for the gangsta's that are getting off with posessing a firearm. The money saving would be great because these clients don't need body armour as they are well hard and they already have their own gun.

[TheNorm]

From the NUT conference booklet of motions:

Conference believes that teachers and schools should not be conduits for either the dissemination of MoD propaganda or the recruitment of military personnel.

Motion 55, starts on page 53 of: http://www.teachers.org.uk/resources...motions_08.pdf

What a load of motions...

[BBKing]

Given what's happening in some of our schools perhaps the recruitment of teachers ought to be looked into also. I wonder if all our aspiring teachers are given the whole truth about what life as a 21st century teacher can be like? You know the appalling behaviour, abuse, physical/verbal attacks etc., coupled with the lack of real deterrents and, all too often, a lack of support from the system when things go wrong.

Given the number of teachers I know who are extremely stressed or have left the job (my son's teacher is leaving next week, for example), I'm inclined to say they have more in common with the Army than one might realise at first glance. There's a growing recruitment and (particularly) retention problem in the forces at the moment, you can tell by the way the Defence Secretary repeatedly denies it.

Personally I don't think the NUTs position is credible, I believe it is politically motivated due to their stance against the Iraq war.

A stance shared by a majority of the public. Actually, shared by a majority of the armed forces, I'd like to throw in as a hand grenade here. See ARRSE for details - the prevailing mood there last time I looked was extreme annoyance at being lied into someone else's fight. Quite how does being in tune with the public mood make it incredible?

Originally Posted by NUT Bloke

"Join the Army and we will send you probably poorly equipped into situations where people will try to shoot or kill you because you are occupying other people's countries."

Sounds a fairly good summary of the state of the game to me. Call me an old-fashioned conservative, but as far as I'm concerned schools should be for educating the next generation of Britons. They should not be

a) training grounds for call centre operators,
b) recruiting grounds for the next batch of neo-con cannon fodder or
c) factories for producing exam results and league tables for politicians and estate agents.

foreverwar - believing MOD press releases, are we? For shame!

Actually, the MOD are using a straw man argument to suggest that the NUT are objecting to the Army coming into schools and recruiting. The NUT are actually objecting to misleading propaganda about army life being aimed at impressionable young people, and I'm right with them there. If people want to join up they ought to know it's hard, dangerous and risky. If they still want to join, good for them.

[punky]

I don't see a problem with it. AFAICR we had other people in our school recruiting, why not the army? When's all said and done its still a job. At my school it was heavily linked to the CCF. There was no uproar from the students. If you want to do it, you did and if you didn't, you didn't.

I'd go as far to say we should encourage MOD recruitment in schools, (along with other essential emergency services), because low recruitment would ultimately mean a return to national service to keep the numbers up.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7311917.stm

Given what's happening in some of our schools perhaps the recruitment of teachers ought to be looked into also. I wonder if all our aspiring teachers are given the whole truth about what life as a 21st century teacher can be like? You know the appalling behaviour, abuse, physical/verbal attacks etc., coupled with the lack of real deterrents and, all too often, a lack of support from the system when things go wrong.

There are also claims that the forces are targeting schools in deprived areas - presumably the implication being that the children will be so desperate for a job they'll consider anything. Well what's wrong with that? If they targeted mainly the likes of Eton and Harrow they'd be accused of being prejudiced against the children of poorer people. Might they not simply be targeting those areas/sschools which they feel will provide the number/type of recruits they need - horses for courses?

the term canon fodder springs to-mind

[foreverwar]

Originally Posted by BBKing

....snippety snip snip...
foreverwar - believing MOD press releases, are we? For shame!

Actually, the MOD are using a straw man argument to suggest that the NUT are objecting to the Army coming into schools and recruiting. The NUT are actually objecting to misleading propaganda about army life being aimed at impressionable young people, and I'm right with them there. If people want to join up they ought to know it's hard, dangerous and risky. If they still want to join, good for them.

Nah, don't believe anything MOD/HMG say (well, not much, anyway).

What I can say is what I saw when my son (16 years old) asked me to take him to an RAF information evening in Bradford recently. It wasn't recruitment, it was awareness (I know the difference), and when asked hard questions about Iraq/Afghanistan postings and the difficulties it caused servicepeople and their families, they were honest about the hardships and the danger - quote "If at sometime in the future, you think a career in the armed forces is for you, bear in mind you can be away from home and family for 6-12 months at a time, and people are trying to kill you - if you can't accept that scenario, don't join up".

Seemed fairly open and honest to me.

btw, seems the NUT are being a little propagandist themselves, with emotive statements (as quoted in the BBC article) such as
" it would be difficult to imagine any material that the MoD could put out to schools that was not be misleading, he said. “Let's just try and imagine what that recruitment material would have to say were it not to be misleading.
“We would have material from the MoD saying, Join the Army and we will send you to carry out the imperialist occupation of other people's countries.
“Join the Army and we will send you to bomb, shoot and possibly torture fellow human beings in other countries.
“Join the Army and we will send you probably poorly equipped into situations where people will try to shoot or kill you because you are occupying other people's countries.
“Join the Army, and if you survive and come home, possibly injured or mentally damaged, you and your family will be shabbily treated.” "

Seems equally one-sided, methinks. How would the NUT like it if the recruitment for teachers only focussed on the negative aspects of what is reported about them? (btw, my daughter is at Uni, and wants to be a teacher after graduating, and I support her in this, as I think teachers (on the whole) do a great job and are under-valued).

[Enuff]

[Osem]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

the term canon fodder springs to-mind

It doesn't spring to my mind. Detailed news reports from embedded reporters and graphic video footage from both official and unofficial sources is all over the place, including the internet so I don't see how anyone can be all that ignorant as to some of the realities of war. When the term cannon fodder was coined the world was a substantially different place and soldiers were considered dispensable, men were often forced to fight or totally misled in order to secure their services. I really don't see that's in any way true of the British Army now.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Given the number of teachers I know who are extremely stressed or have left the job ....

Replace them with ex-servicemen/women. Lord knows, some of our schools could do with a bit of discipline.

[papa smurf]

[quote=Osem; men were often forced to fight or totally misled in order to secure their services. I really don't see that's in any way true of the British Army now.[/QUOTE]

like going to war in iraq ,because of all those weapons of mass destruction that sadam had , does that count as misled

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

like going to war in iraq ,because of all those weapons of mass destruction that sadam had , does that count as misled

Not as in "misled to secure their services" it's not.
You don't get recruitment officers going round pubs dropping the Queen's shilling into the tankards of drunks.