James Bulger's 18th birthday - Page 17

**Maggy J** · 14-03-2010, 18:50

Hmm!

I look at children around the age of 10 and for the life of me cannot see them as evil..even those who are naughty and mischievous or 'out of control' as some term them..Something has to trigger something in them to make them turn to killing.Lack of supervision?Lack of caring parents?Abuse?

I simply cannot see how anyone can say a child who behaves this way should not be considered to young to punish as an adult.I think myself that each and every case like this should be dealt with on the merits of the case.Thankfully such cases are very,very rare so this is a possibility.

And yes I can see that many want victims or the parents of victims to get some closure through the punishment...but I'm dubious about handing the picking and choosing of the sentencing to those victims.Any choices they make are just not going to be made with any sense of impartiality.

Why should impartiality matter? Because if you don't have it in a case then our law system becomes a vigilante one rather than one based on Justice and Mercy.

**Derek** · 14-03-2010, 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistophelean

After putting these two children on trial in an adult court,

What age would YOU say is the age that criminal responsibility should be? I would say at 10 you know the difference between right and wrong and for a crime as heinous as theirs I would rather they were in an adult court than in front of a childrens panel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistophelean

So when a criminal has served their sentence, then that individual should be allowed to live their life without fear of repercussions from victims, their families or supporters and the media!

Should every murderer be given a new identity when they are released?

**Paul M** · 14-03-2010, 18:55

@mephistophelean

Will you please learn to space your posts out - reading them is a major effort in itself.

Quote:

and his name was not Jamie it was James

If your going to correct people, try to get it right yourself

Quote:

Since the day that two-year-old Jamie Bulger was abducted by two ten year old boys ......

Also, the thread was created two years ago, at which point the title age was correct.

mephistophelean · 14-03-2010, 19:20

Most murders dont have hate campaigns that last nearly two decades. If we see the kind of campaign like we has seen against the Bulger killers then a new identity is required. In scotlan the age of responsibilty is 8, but thankfully its going to be raised to 12. Which I agree with. But anyone under 16 should never be tried as adults.

[Mod: Removed swearing]

**Derek** · 14-03-2010, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistophelean

In scotlan the age of responsibilty is 8, but thankfully its going to be raised to 12. Which I agree with. But anyone under 16 should never be tried as adults.

So at 16 a magic switch is clicked and all of a sudden a horrible wee ned suddenly sees the light and before that all they need is a quick cuddle and everything will be OK.

A quick newsflash for you. There are plenty of 12, 13, 14 and 15 year olds who know right from wrong. How about these two? Should they not have been tried as adults for the murder they committed?

What about this 15 year old? Do you think the extra year till he will be 16 would make him realise setting a fire inside a house was wrong?

budwieser · 14-03-2010, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S

So at 16 a magic switch is clicked and all of a sudden a horrible wee ned suddenly sees the light and before that all they need is a quick cuddle and everything will be OK.

A quick newsflash for you. There are plenty of 12, 13, 14 and 15 year olds who know right from wrong. How about these two? Should they not have been tried as adults for the murder they committed?

What about this 15 year old? Do you think the extra year till he will be 16 would make him realise setting a fire inside a house was wrong?

Why do they not release the names of the killers if they are under 16 Derek? i don`t understand that part.

mephistophelean · 14-03-2010, 21:16

lets not forget that Venables and Thompson where still at primary school when they committed their crime...Anyone who thinks primary school kids should be treated as adult, regardless of wht they do, need their heads seen to. We have to draw a line. If a child is to be tried as an adult, no names should ever be released! The tow kids involved in teh Edlington case where not named? Why? could it because we now know what wll happen? We leave school at 16 and are expected to pay taxes then we should see 16 as a good starting age for adult courts. Not before!

Sirius · 14-03-2010, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistophelean

lets not forget that Venables and Thompson where still at primary school when they committed their crime...Anyone who thinks primary school kids should be treated as adult, regardless of wht they do, need their heads seen to. We have to draw a line. If a child is to be tried as an adult, no names should ever be released! The tow kids involved in teh Edlington case where not named? Why? could it because we now know what wll happen? We leave school at 16 and are expected to pay taxes then we should see 16 as a good starting age for adult courts. Not before!

Am i so glad that people like you are few and far between. This country would be completely ruined if you had any say in it

Peter_ · 14-03-2010, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistophelean

Most murders dont have hate campaigns that last nearly two decades. If we see the kind of campaign like we has seen against the Bulger killers then a new identity is required. In scotlan the age of responsibilty is 8, but thankfully its going to be raised to 12. Which I agree with. But anyone under 16 should never be tried as adults.

[Mod: Removed swearing]

You have no true concept of what those 2 monsters planned and did to James and I also rather doubt you even have a child as all your vitriol is aimed at a mother who child was callously murdered by 2 monsters who should have been left in jail for a lot longer for what they did to him.

As I have previously said the victim could have been anyone even my own child, but if it had been my own child I would have spent time hunting these 2 monsters down and I dread to think what I would do to them, let alone my wife.

A mothers bond to a child is exceptionally strong and mothers have actually lifted cars off their children to save them, so the reaction of Denise is to be expected.

Try getting a grip on reality and stop being a complete waste of space.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistophelean

lets not forget that Venables and Thompson where still at primary school when they committed their crime...Anyone who thinks primary school kids should be treated as adult, regardless of wht they do, need their heads seen to.

They planned a murder and carried it out so that is reason enough for them to be tried in an adult court.

I think the last part of your comment more aptly fits you.

**Damien** · 14-03-2010, 22:25

I think that she is entitled to be angry and upset obviously, I can't say she is entitled to use the media platform she has to call for people to be fired.

speedfreak · 14-03-2010, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I think that she is entitled to be angry and upset obviously, I can't say she is entitled to use the media platform she has to call for people to be fired.

But can you honestly say you wouldnt be the same? Quite a hard question to answer unless it happens to you I guess. Maybe its because Ive got a 2 yr old boy myself, but some posts in this thread have made me that angry that I promised myself not to look at it again, but curiosity seems to have gotten the better of me

**Damien** · 14-03-2010, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak

But can you honestly say you wouldnt be the same? Quite a hard question to answer unless it happens to you I guess. Maybe its because Ive got a 2 yr old boy myself, but some posts in this thread have made me that angry that I promised myself not to look at it again, but curiosity seems to have gotten the better of me

No I couldn't. I guess the criticism should be directed at those who provide the platform when they are well aware the woman's views are, understandably, motivated by such a awful loss.

The thing is that it wasn't especially welcome when she was claiming her rights to know what crime Venables was recalled for, an action which would risk compromising a fair trail and thus harmed the rights of both the accused and the actual victim for this crime. No one seemed to mention that she was not the victim for this new crime and there are other people involved than her and him.

Someone mentions that the age of responsibility in the UK is, in their view, to low (which is not bizarre, it is higher in other EU countries) and she calls for them to be fired. I mean honestly.

Peter_ · 14-03-2010, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

I think that she is entitled to be angry and upset obviously, I can't say she is entitled to use the media platform she has to call for people to be fired.

Its called anger and remember she is James mother and your own mother would react in the same way if it was you that had been murdered by the 2 killers.

**Damien** · 14-03-2010, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova

Its called anger and remember she is James mother and your own mother would react in the same way if it was you that had been murdered by the 2 killers.

That doesn't make it right. This person had nothing to do with the murder, calling for her to be fired is out of order IMO.

Peter_ · 14-03-2010, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

That doesn't make it right. This person had nothing to do with the murder, calling for her to be fired is out of order IMO.

It is not a question of being right but a question of anger which to her is the correct action.

It is very unlikely that anyone would be sacked on her say so but as the mother of James she will be angry over the comments that were made.

As I said above her reaction is the same as any other mothers would be in these circumstances even your own.