If the SNP wins tonight ...

[Chris]

... will the last person out of Scotland please switch off the lights.

(to coin a phrase!)

Nice to see the Sun, Mirror, Record and Mail all savaging the Scottish National Party on their front pages in Scotland this morning anyway. Perhaps there's still hope.

What does everyone else think? (wherever you live - the split of the Union would affect everyone)

[Media Boy]

Come on SNP. Stop the English taking our oil.

[BBKing]

Well, I can't blame them - if I had a vote for independence for London I might well be tempted

Actually, a lot of SNP voters are primarily '****ed off at Blair' voters*, rather than flag-waving independonauts, so I suspect that even if they do win, a referendum is unlikely to succeed in attracting enough 'yes' votes.

Nice to see the Sun, Mirror, Record and Mail all savaging the Scottish National Party on their front pages

Since when have the agenda-inspired headlines in tabloids been a reliable source for discussion? Keep your standards up, Chris!

* Robert Carlyle, interviewed on the radio, said he was voting SNP despite a history of Labour voting in his family going back years. One revealing comment was that for him the SNP have shaken off their image of 'tartan Tories', which enables left-wing disgruntled Labour supporters to vote for them.

[TheDaddy]

The only problem I can see with this, is that they won't take Wales with them

[Xaccers]

I still think we should have a UK parliment, and when issues relating only to england, scotland, NI, or wales crop up, then only MP's from there should get to vote.
Would have saved a fortune in construction costs.
Just shows how little Labour are really interested in devolution, if there was a high chance of loss of support from Scotland or Wales it wouldn't have happened. They like that they have re-inforcments that can be brought in to pass laws which wouldn't affect Scottish nationals and wouldn't get passed otherwise.
I hope the results tomorrow give Labour one hell of a bloody nose!

[Media Boy]

Originally Posted by Chris T

Nice to see the Sun, Mirror, Record and Mail all savaging the Scottish National Party on their front pages in Scotland this morning anyway. Perhaps there's still hope.

They are Made in Scotland BUT they are own by some nice people from England:

The Scottish Sun = The Sun.
The Scottish Mirror = The Mirror.
The Record = The Mirror.
The Scottish Mail = The Mail.

[Maggy J]

I think that complete devolution would make us all significantly weaker especially when it comes to defence of the realm.

But what do I know? I'm just a mongrel with Scottish,Irish and New Forest gypsy blood plus I wasn't even born in the UK...

[TheBlueRaja]

One thing to note is that this would allow for a vote on independence not independence itself IIRC.

Im slightly torn, 75% of me thinks its fine as it is, given Scots run the country anyway.

However thats because its a labour government, if it was the tories that were in we would be being run by a Party that nobody up here has any support for so effectively in that case we would be being run by a government not of our choosing.

And given what Thatcher did its not hard to see why some people in Wales, Ireland and Scotland want independence.

And we do have all that Oil, Natural Gas, Wind power, water, tourism....

Hmmm, tough call, i'd need to hear more arguments for and against to make my mind up.

However, given the fact the papers are against it make me want to vote for the SNP just to stick it up them, although i wont.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

Im slightly torn, 75% of me thinks its fine as it is, given Scots run the country anyway.

However thats because its a labour government, if it was the tories that were in we would be being run by a Party that nobody up here has any support for so effectively in that case we would be being run by a government not of our choosing.

Like England currently is.
Heck we don't even have our own governing body like Wales/NI/Scotland.
We're stuck with everyone.
If Scottish MP's only voted on Scottish issues, Scotland would have a governing body they elected, likewise with the other members, and then a national goverment to deal with the national issues.

[TheBlueRaja]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Like England currently is.
Heck we don't even have our own governing body like Wales/NI/Scotland.
We're stuck with everyone.
If Scottish MP's only voted on Scottish issues, Scotland would have a governing body they elected, likewise with the other members, and then a national goverment to deal with the national issues.

That's quite a broad statement, a Labour under Brown would probably garner rather more support in England and i think that the majority of the Labour faithful would still rather vote Labour in a GE than see the alternative get in.

[Stuart C]

Even though they are essentially Tories..

[Nugget]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I'm just a mongrel with Scottish,Irish and New Forest gypsy blood plus I wasn't even born in the UK...

INFIDEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!



---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------

Mod edit (Chris T): Moved the rest of this post to a local elections thread: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...l#post34293102

[Stephen]

I used to think it would be a good idea, now I am a bit more grown up I think its probably not a great idea.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by TV Boy

They are Made in Scotland BUT they are own by some nice people from England:

The Scottish Sun = The Sun.
The Scottish Mirror = The Mirror.
The Record = The Mirror.
The Scottish Mail = The Mail.

Exactly the sort of Little Scotlander mentality that will destroy this country should the SNP win. Independence for Scotland has profound implications for everyone, not just 5.5 million people north of the Border.

And your point about the oil ... there is no Maritime frontier between England and Scotland because the relevant international treaties did not exist at any time before the Union existed. The oil has never belonged to Scotland, it has only ever belonged to a nation state called the United Kingdom. And if a maritime border ever were drawn between the two, those international treaties would actually put a sizeable chunk of the oil fields in English territory.

The SNP's policy on North Sea oil, like much of what they say, is based on fantasy economics.

Originally Posted by TheBlueRaja

One thing to note is that this would allow for a vote on independence not independence itself IIRC.

Im slightly torn, 75% of me thinks its fine as it is, given Scots run the country anyway.

However thats because its a labour government, if it was the tories that were in we would be being run by a Party that nobody up here has any support for so effectively in that case we would be being run by a government not of our choosing.

And given what Thatcher did its not hard to see why some people in Wales, Ireland and Scotland want independence.

And we do have all that Oil, Natural Gas, Wind power, water, tourism....

Hmmm, tough call, i'd need to hear more arguments for and against to make my mind up.

However, given the fact the papers are against it make me want to vote for the SNP just to stick it up them, although i wont.

The 'no mandate for the Tories' jibe is an old myth that proportional representation at Holyrood has blown wide open. They may only have about 15% support but that's about the same as the Lib Dems - who have seats at the Executive table in Edinburgh.

The Westminster system may not give the Tories many (if any) seats in Scotland but it's unfair on a sizeable number of Scots to say that nobody supports them.

Originally Posted by BBKing

Actually, a lot of SNP voters are primarily '****ed off at Blair' voters*, rather than flag-waving independonauts, so I suspect that even if they do win, a referendum is unlikely to succeed in attracting enough 'yes' votes.

If a referendum were held next week that may well be the case. What is worrying is that the SNP apparently has a programme of set-piece confrontations with Westminster all planned out - everything from Trident to oil revenue. The strategy will be to paint the union in such a bad light that the referendum will (they hope) be better received when it comes.

Personally I would like whichever party wins the election to spend its time paying proper attention to the devolved issues they were elected to pay attention to. I have no confidence that the SNP will do this and so while they are deliberately out wrecking the Union, they will by omission make a wreck of Scotland as well.

Since when have the agenda-inspired headlines in tabloids been a reliable source for discussion? Keep your standards up, Chris!

Not a reliable source of discussion perhaps, but a politically useful campaigning tool on a day like today. Agendas or no, you have to wonder what's up when News Corp, Trinity Mirror and Mail & General all start singing from the same hymn sheet.

Besides, it goes some way towards making up for the shamelessly pro-SNP coverage that's been belting out across Glasgow and the West from Clyde 1 FM these past couple of weeks.

[squiggs1982]

Independance for Scotland would be a disaster.

I am a Scot, born and raised in Glasgow and have lived there for my entire life, until I moved to London two years ago.

Moved here because to start a career in Scotland in my particular area would be difficult, but to build one down here and then transfer the skills back up would be easier. I'd like to think that I'm able to contribute to both London and Scotland then.

I am one of the only people in my age group I know that has "British" as my nationality on my drivers license. I am extremely proud to be British, but also extremely proud of my Scottish heritage.

I want to eventually move back to Glasgow, but were the SNP to get in and subsequently have a successful referendum on independance that resulted in the break up of the union, I doubt I would go back.

The majority (and I stress, the majority - not all) of the SNP supporters and those who actually believe in the independance movement that I have met, strike me as having a childish view of what that would mean for both Scotland and the rest of the UK.

The bizarre notion that one, Scotland could survive without the support of the UK (on mystical oil resreves that we don't actually have any claim to and tourism and our burgeoning financial centres - which would all go if we became independant) and two, that Alex Salmond and his party have the ability to govern, is terrifying.

What people fail to understand, is that Scotland is hugely subsidised (and not just purely in financial terms) by the union and that to break it up would be the ruin of the country.

You can probably guess what side of the fence my politics lie by my comments, but there is no doubt that I've been rallying everyone I know to vote Labour (despite normal preferences and ideals), purely to make sure that the SNP or some sort of stupid SNP/LIb (we'll say whatever we think will get us the most votes) Dem coalition is not formed. It's the only rational thing to do.

P.S. Sorry if I've offended anyone - not intentional!