Dyslexic man in legal battle with banks

[Alanmelon]

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/...A31%3A04%3A510

Mr Neil was diagnosed as having a severe form of dyslexia in 1995. He also suffers from dyscalculia, which means he has difficulty understanding mathe-matics and figures in the written form.

He also says that he was wrongly granted a loan of £20,100 by Nat West, which is owned by the RBS, because he did not understand its interest rate.

Just came across this on a local news site. I'm sure there are plenty of liberals on here who'll disagree with my opinion on this but I just hope that whichever judge hears this case shows some common sense. I just cannot fathom how someone who knows of their "severe" condition and the effects it has, just merrily signs an agreement to borrow over 20k, even on his own admission that he did not understand the conditions.

he does not understand written statements and inadvertently becomes overdrawn

Again, I'm sorry, but if he has such a severe condition that he cannot understand such straightforward concepts as how much cash is in his account and that he cannot spend more than that then he should have a legal guardian to manage his financial affairs or keep his money in a box under the bed.

Just seems to me to be another example of someone not willing or able to take responsibility for their own actions and looking to jump on the blame and claim gravy train. (Inadvertent rhyming)

[awibble]

Even if he cannot understand the number, he should be able to understand the line that says something like "by signing i say that i understand this agreement"

Dont get me wrong, i feel for him, but by signing it, he said he understood, which means hes in the wrong.

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by awibble

Even if he cannot understand the number, he should be able to understand the line that says something like "by signing i say that i understand this agreement"

Dont get me wrong, i feel for him, but by signing it, he said he understood, which means hes in the wrong.

Dyslexia can also affect literacy so no your asumption is not nessecarily correct.

Also Legal guardians anyone related to finance really either cost or can be untrustorthy or even both. Who would you trust for basic personal finance advice, a bank at the end of the day should be trustworthy but we all know thats not the case so just who would you trust. Under your bed is also not the best place to keep all your money is it.

No I am not any kind of Liberal, however I do know several people who suffer this and other similar ill health issues. I also am well aware that anyone involved in finance which pretty much covers the entire countrys' population love to simply take advantage of any disposition any time they can.

[Xaccers]

What was the interest rate he was charged?
Is it substantually different to other customers similar loans?
Did he make the bank aware of his special needs?
Did they explain what his repayments would be?
Did he understand that he was signing to say that he understood everything?
Did he mention that he didn't understand anything at the time or was he too self concious?
Is there any difference between this and a customer without special needs who doesn't bother listening/reading, signs anyway and then thinks/is told afterwards that the interest is a bit steep?

[JASONUKUK]

im part Dyslexia but as to money no way wifes getting any extra as to the 20 kids if get one more don`t make it count ;-).

should have asked for Dyslexia printed statements.

[Salu]

If someone came to me and said "I'm dyslexic and I'm having trouble with Banking", I'd certainly raise an eyebrow.....

[Action Jackson]

Originally Posted by Salu

If someone came to me and said "I'm dyslexic and I'm having trouble with Banking", I'd certainly raise an eyebrow.....

Apparently he has dyscalculia as well which means he has trouble with maths.


Thing is, why would he need to be good at maths to realise the amount of money he was borrowing?

[Chicken]

Originally Posted by Action Jackson

Apparently he has dyscalculia as well ...

He has a vampire??

[NitroNutter]

You take your car to the garage, you are not a mechanic all you know is how to drive and park it. The garage tells you x, y and z is wrong and later you discover that really y and z was not needed but the garage decided it needed the extra work and resulting extra paypacket. This kind of thing is shown on those expose the local cowboys programs all the time, no theres no difference, every proffesional is responsioble to advise their clients correctly, there are to many industries that think they can simply get away with being irresponsible and dont care anyway becasue they will just gain. How many accountants are ever succesfully sued for shoddy workmanship ? Its very rare it happens and its you who gets all the fines not the accountancy. It seems in the UK if your anything to do with the taxation, banking, finance or accoutancy industry you get a gratis waive of any legal client responsibility, which is quite ironic really as where theres money theres almost allways corruption.

A prime example of what may have been an organised financial legal scam on a mass scale is the tax credit system, government taxes everyone, then hands back xx, then declares it handed back x to much a year later and wants the overpayemnts back, you have allready spent it as it got allocated in your budget, now your in more debt but not only that the government got away with falsely making you feel richer for a couple of years, you wasted the overpayments which they also earned more tax on. Hows that for a double scammy . So who here still trusts the government and pays taxes, of which by the way has much imrpoved collection methods than the days of robin hood, today its repossesion and sell all you own instead of just burning your straw home to the ground.

[awibble]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Dyslexia can also affect literacy so no your asumption is not nessecarily correct.

Yes, i know, however the Op did quote

He also suffers from dyscalculia, which means he has difficulty understanding mathe-matics and figures in the written form.

Which says to me that he has a problem with numbers rather than words.

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

You take your car to the garage, you are not a mechanic all you know is how to drive and park it. The garage tells you x, y and z is wrong and later you discover that really y and z was not needed but the garage decided it needed the extra work and resulting extra paypacket. This kind of thing is shown on those expose the local cowboys programs all the time, no theres no difference, every proffesional is responsioble to advise their clients correctly, there are to many industries that think they can simply get away with being irresponsible and dont care anyway becasue they will just gain. How many accountants are ever succesfully sued for shoddy workmanship ? Its very rare it happens and its you who gets all the fines not the accountancy. It seems in the UK if your anything to do with the taxation, banking, finance or accoutancy industry you get a gratis waive of any legal client responsibility, which is quite ironic really as where theres money theres almost allways corruption.

I think its totally different, having recently taken out a mortgage, i know how much paperwork there is, its not like in a garage, where things are not explained, everything is explained, as to how much is been borrowed etc etc.

The key thing here is that there is part of it that will of said something along the lines of By Signing this agreement, i understand what is says.

And that statement is pretty clear.

If he was aware of the problem, then he should of had someone check it.

Dont get me wrong, i feel for him, i have a similar problem ,but not as extreamem But at the end of the day if you do not understand what something says, why was he signing it?

[NitroNutter]

Originally Posted by awibble

Yes, i know, however the Op did quote



Which says to me that he has a problem with numbers rather than words.



I think its totally different, having recently taken out a mortgage, i know how much paperwork there is, its not like in a garage, where things are not explained, everything is explained, as to how much is been borrowed etc etc.

The key thing here is that there is part of it that will of said something along the lines of By Signing this agreement, i understand what is says.

And that statement is pretty clear.

If he was aware of the problem, then he should of had someone check it.

Dont get me wrong, i feel for him, i have a similar problem ,but not as extreamem But at the end of the day if you do not understand what something says, why was he signing it?

Oh and if a garage did explain would you actually be any the wiser if your not a mechanic, if you know about vehicles think of something else like computers or programing, fixing waching machines. I have borrowed piles of money myself in the past, I dont remember much in the way of any explanations, in fact on the whole banks love to give it out, they like to take whatever they can back when they want aswell, it doesnt matter to them banks rarely lose money even over reposessions.

Originally Posted by the article

Mr Neil was diagnosed as having a severe form of dyslexia in 1995. He also suffers from dyscalculia, which means he has difficulty understanding mathe-matics and figures in the written form.

Originally Posted by more article

He said that while he had repeatedly explained his predicament to the banks, they had failed to allocate someone to him who understood his condition.

I believe that shows from the article he has both disabilities in quite a severe form and it may well be true that he was not treated professionally. What if you went into the bank and asked for a loan and got it with ease not realising that by simply saying yes your a homeowner they tacked your house in for security and you were not aware of that and couldnt read it. Banks also have a nasty habit of changing things at the last minute among allsorts of other nasty trick, it wouldnt bother me if they lost even if it wasnt a just loss.

In todays society you go into a bank or similar and they are allways sayign dont you want a credit card, how about a loan, an upgraded account with an overdraft, yet all I did was go in to pay something in or a bill, surely if the client wanted something else they would ask for it ? In which case whats to stop them offering someone 20k when they only asked for say 5k, which is actually also common practice,"Client: 'Can I borrow 5 grand' Banker: 'Lets take your details and see what we can do: pause: Sir we can lend you 20 thousand and the interest rate is less'". <- This actually means the rate is less but only pro rata, some will take that at face value though and truly believe the total interest is less. Most who understand its pro rata will simply not udnerstand how any one can think of it differently.

I know I have been offered a good 100% more than reqested before with loans, at the end ofg the day just about any bank will want to lend you all they can. Over raising loans is a continual scenario with credit cards, every year or more often your limit is raised and generally those limit increases are never requested, this can happen on 10 or even 20 cards, they dont care, they hope you do run it all up. then they try to take everything you own and if they cant get that all the other clients will simply foot the small loss. Personally I think all forms of cold sales should be outlawed with very stiff penalties, when I go into an electrical store or a computer shop its "jump on the customer" can we help you sir bla bla, I am like wtf, I will ask for help when I want it, I will look at the goods I may be interested in and I will take as long as I want to make my decision and that may well mean going home to look more info up. Unfortunalty all this cold sales and client jumping is what leads to excess impulse purchases and therefore lots more taxes and everything else, it wont be outlawed even though its a pig ignorant method of toping up paypackets, cold selling also carries probably a bigger non-green footprint than any other there is including jet fuel.

I doubt theres an industry out there today that does not do what is known as overselling, that is sell to clients more than they need, its become such a common practice that it has just become acceptable everywhere, that pretty much makes humanity the biggest collective waste of resources and space there ever was, especially when you take into account all the goods designed to breakdown in a certain time which is also very common today

[lostandconfused]

i think the example of the garage is a different situation IMO, the garage delibiratly told false information to the customer, whereas the bank provided the information, if the customer cant or has trouble reading then they should inform the bank of this, the only other way to get around that would be to make everyone take a basic reading / writing test before getting a loan

[awibble]

Originally Posted by NitroNutter

Oh and if a garage did explain would you actually be any the wiser if your not a mechanic, if you know about vehicles think of something else like computers or programing, fixing waching machines. I have borrowed piles of money myself in the past, I dont remember much in the way of any explanations, in fact on the whole banks love to give it out, they like to take whatever they can back when they want aswell, it doesnt matter to them banks rarely lose money even over reposessions.

If the garage where to put it on paper, and then asked you to sign to say that ou understood it, you couldnt exactly turn round later and say, well actually i didnt understand it could you? and if you did, do you think the court would rule in your favor... remembering that by your own admission you couldnt be trusted to sign the court documents to say you understood what was going to happen.

As i said, i have every sympathy for the guy, but in this case i belive he is in the wrong.

[rogermevans]

Originally Posted by lostandconfused

i think the example of the garage is a different situation IMO, the garage delibiratly told false information to the customer, whereas the bank provided the information, if the customer cant or has trouble reading then they should inform the bank of this, the only other way to get around that would be to make everyone take a basic reading / writing test before getting a loan

and banks never provide misleading information !

hard to say anything more on this unless we hear all thats said in court

[danielf]

Difficult one, this one. Whilst I am sympathetic to the man in question (but also have my doubts about his motives), part of me wonders how long it will be before people will seek compensation for a bank (or whatever party) not realising they are too stupid (whilst being in the normal IQ range).

Ok, the man has a condition, but that does not make it impossible for him to request the information be explained to him in a different format. I think it's a little too easy to blame the bank. He's got to take some responsibility...