26-01-2007, 08:34
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#1
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O I C
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Does crime pay?
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26-01-2007, 08:39
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#2
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cf.geek
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Re: Does crime pay?
in the mind of many it will be a green light to do as you please as you won't get jailed for it.
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26-01-2007, 08:50
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#3
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Does crime pay?
Although in essence it's going back to the old ways, where you didn't get jailed for minor offences (80,000 in prison is a very recent innovation). Reid is going to have trouble though, because all the judges hate him and the Home Office for using the tabloids to blame them for 'light' sentences, whereas it's actually HO guidelines that are the reason. This will mean a lot of judges sighing theatrically and telling defendants 'I'd really like to jail you, but Mr. Reid won't let me. <to court reporter>Did you get that?'. What goes around.
__________________
"An inquiry into the CONSTITUTIONAL ERRORS in the English form of government is at this time highly necessary; for as we are never in a proper condition of doing justice to others, while we continue under the influence of some leading partiality, so neither are we capable of doing it to ourselves while we remain fettered by any obstinate prejudice"
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776.
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26-01-2007, 09:26
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#4
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cf.geek
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Re: Does crime pay?
time for some Bronson style vigilantism
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26-01-2007, 12:14
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#5
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKing
Although in essence it's going back to the old ways, where you didn't get jailed for minor offences (80,000 in prison is a very recent innovation). Reid is going to have trouble though, because all the judges hate him and the Home Office for using the tabloids to blame them for 'light' sentences, whereas it's actually HO guidelines that are the reason. This will mean a lot of judges sighing theatrically and telling defendants 'I'd really like to jail you, but Mr. Reid won't let me. <to court reporter>Did you get that?'. What goes around.
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Its already happened
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6300565.stm
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26-01-2007, 12:20
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#6
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"Why I oughta..."
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Re: Does crime pay?
Why has the number of prisoners increased? Are we becoming an increasingly lawless society, or are the police doing their jobs more efficiently, or are there more laws to fall foul of?
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26-01-2007, 12:27
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#7
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNorm
Why has the number of prisoners increased? Are we becoming an increasingly lawless society, or are the police doing their jobs more efficiently, or are there more laws to fall foul of?
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Personally I think it has more to do with people being locked up more easily, crimes that didn't necessarily warrant a custodial sentence 10 years ago now seem to automatically receive one, mainly due to judges having to follow strict sentencing guidelines.
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26-01-2007, 12:35
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#8
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"Why I oughta..."
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
... mainly due to judges having to follow strict sentencing guidelines.
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And who issued the strict guidelines?
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26-01-2007, 21:16
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#9
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Going Grey
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by me283
Isn't it strange, judges (allegedly) don' jail criminals who might be a danger to society, because there is apparently no room in the overcrowded jail system... yet they can find a place for a tax-dodging pensioner...
It's like I've been saying for some time: this country cares more about financial crime than it does about crimes against the person. Makes me sick.
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She must have been a real threat. (Oh yeah the MP's would be short of money for their pay rise)
AtD
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27-01-2007, 09:29
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#10
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Sick of Liberals
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKing
Although in essence it's going back to the old ways, where you didn't get jailed for minor offences (80,000 in prison is a very recent innovation). Reid is going to have trouble though, because all the judges hate him and the Home Office for using the tabloids to blame them for 'light' sentences, whereas it's actually HO guidelines that are the reason. This will mean a lot of judges sighing theatrically and telling defendants 'I'd really like to jail you, but Mr. Reid won't let me. <to court reporter>Did you get that?'. What goes around.
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Think its time for the Judges to step down. Read and the people want tougher sentacing, but the juges refuse?? Who the bloody hell do they think they are??
They and the usless mandarins in the Home Office should get the push
---------- Post added at 09:29 ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by me283
Isn't it strange, judges (allegedly) don' jail criminals who might be a danger to society, because there is apparently no room in the overcrowded jail system... yet they can find a place for a tax-dodging pensioner...
It's like I've been saying for some time: this country cares more about financial crime than it does about crimes against the person. Makes me sick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert_the_dog
She must have been a real threat. (Oh yeah the MP's would be short of money for their pay rise)
AtD
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But thats a crime agains society, so it gets the full weight of the Law, Us little people do not seem to matter to this Govt
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27-01-2007, 09:50
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#11
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
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Why has the number of prisoners increased? Are we becoming an increasingly lawless society, or are the police doing their jobs more efficiently, or are there more laws to fall foul of?
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TheDaddy is right, here, it's mainly because prison is used earlier, particularly for young people or in cases where previously a fine would have been used. There are also ASBO breachers like the persistent drunk who's been banned from, er, being drunk, and has served 18 months for various breaches. Given that 50 odd percent of ASBOs get breached that must be a reasonable % of the prison population now, in and out on short sentences (say 2000 out of 80,000, perhaps?).
Quote:
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Think its time for the Judges to step down. Read and the people want tougher sentacing, but the juges refuse?? Who the bloody hell do they think they are??
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I think you've got it totally backwards, old son. Reid is saying, effectively (and I've found a copy of what he says, link below) 'bear in mind that the jails are full when you're considering your sentence', or in other words 'please don't use so many custodial sentences'. It's Reid who wants to tie judges' hands, Reid who wants to dictate when and when not to sentence.
Anyway, if judges are refusing to jail people, how the hell did the jails become full in the first place? Jails are full because sentencing is tougher, sentencing is tougher because of tabloid pressure to bang 'em up, reoffending rates are up because the system's overcrowded (particularly probation, which is nearly broken now) which leads to more overcrowding. It all leads back to the Home Office and a lot of it leads back to Blunkett's 2003 CJA, which was partly an attempt to politicise sentencing policy. Well, if they want to politicise it, they can take the blame when it screws up, as far as I'm concerned. Don't blame the judges for having their discretion abrogated.
Reid and co's letter:
http://thelawwestofealingbroadway.bl.../01/quote.html
Very much political boasting and beating about the bush, but it's fairly clear what
Quote:
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The Government supports alternatives to custody for non-serious, non-violent and non-persistent offenders – criminal justice legislation offers a wide range of tough non-custodial sentences.
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means.
__________________
"An inquiry into the CONSTITUTIONAL ERRORS in the English form of government is at this time highly necessary; for as we are never in a proper condition of doing justice to others, while we continue under the influence of some leading partiality, so neither are we capable of doing it to ourselves while we remain fettered by any obstinate prejudice"
Thomas Paine, Common Sense, 1776.
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27-01-2007, 09:59
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#12
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"Why I oughta..."
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKing
... sentencing is tougher because of tabloid pressure to bang 'em up, ...
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Who is feeling this pressure? The judges? Or is the pressure put on the judges "indirectly" through the politicians?
The reason I'm asking is to try and find a way to avoid a repetition of the farcical situation that we are in now.
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27-01-2007, 10:17
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#13
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert_the_dog
She must have been a real threat. (Oh yeah the MP's would be short of money for their pay rise)
AtD
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Apparently more of a threat than paedophiles!
I'm sorry, but does anyone here really think that a tax doger should be given a custodial sentence when a paedophile gets a 6 month suspended? (that's suspended sentence, not suspended for 6 months over a vat of boiling acid)
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02-02-2007, 09:12
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#14
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Hardline unforgiving
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers
Apparently more of a threat than paedophiles!
I'm sorry, but does anyone here really think that a tax doger should be given a custodial sentence when a paedophile gets a 6 month suspended? (that's suspended sentence, not suspended for 6 months over a vat of boiling acid)
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As i've said before, the powers that be seem more concerned with financial crime than crime against the person. People are sent to jail for crimes where there is a financial loss, when surely the best option would be to punish them financially? Obviously, in extreme cases a sentence may be warranted, but refusal to pay council tax? On the other hand, those who burgle, mug, assault and maim, are often given "yet another" last chance.
Another thing to consider (never mind the ASBO breachers) is the number of overseas nationals in UK prisons. How many could/should be deported? I have seen various figures quoted, all of them in the thousands. Hmmmm... who would you rather have in prison - a social menace, or a person who could just as easily (and even more cheaply) be deported?
As for paedophiles, how can anyone think there is any alternative to imprisonment?
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02-02-2007, 09:14
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#15
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Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: Does crime pay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by me283
As for paedophiles, how can anyone think there is any alternative to imprisonment?
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Castration. Either chemical or surgical.
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