Green Belt should be abolished

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

We would still have open spaces, but they would be "redistributed".

And made smaller, as otherwise there would be no point re-distributing them.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

...This is another thing that leads me to think we should be looking at other solutions.

Such as...?

Originally Posted by Jules

I see too many places empty and getting more and more grotty, fill these before you start building even more

I expect the argument against this is it is much cheaper for a developer to build houses on one 10-hectare plot of agricultural land than 10 one-hectare plots of grotty land in the city.

[Stuart C]

The one Jules suggested for a start.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

And made smaller, as otherwise there would be no point re-distributing them.

Not necessarily. The government could say something along the lines of "for every 1 hectare of green belt used, ensure you set aside another 2 hectares of land for parks, recreational grounds, woodland, etc."

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

I expect the argument against this is it is much cheaper for a developer to build houses on one 10-hectare plot of agricultural land than 10 one-hectare plots of grotty land in the city.

Someone who builds 30 houses for 50-60K a piece then sells them for 250-300K a peice (yes, I have been told this happens) obviously needs to save money...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Jules

I see too many places empty and getting more and more grotty, fill these before you start building even more

That just about sums it up for me, do we want a green and pleasant land or a grey and concrete one? It's not just the people with a nice view that will suffer when all the natural places of interest are gone

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Not necessarily. The government could say something along the lines of "for every 1 hectare of green belt used, ensure you set aside another 2 hectares of land for parks, recreational grounds, woodland, etc."

If they have access to 2 hectares of land to set aside, why not build on it and save the Green belt land?

[Ramrod]

Why not just stop letting so many people into this country?
They have already accepted that building more roads isn't the answer to ultimately easing road congestion but they seem hell bent on easing housing 'congestion' by simply building more houses. This will ultimately result in more overcrowding (and where I live this is already a big problem) and then the need to build even more housing.....we should be trying to reduce our population on this small island, not encourage its growth. Quality not quantity......

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

Someone who builds 30 houses for 50-60K a piece then sells them for 250-300K a peice (yes, I have been told this happens) obviously needs to save money...

Originally Posted by Stuart C

If they have access to 2 hectares of land to set aside, why not build on it and save the Green belt land?

Well if building on brownfield sites is apparently so easy and profitable, why isn't it happening?

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Why not just stop letting so many people into this country? .....we should be trying to reduce our population on this small island, not encourage its growth. ......

We would have to reduce the population pretty drastically:

The Optimum Population Trust believes that Earth may not be able to support more than half its present numbers in the next century, and that the UK's sustainable population level in the 22nd century may be as low as 30 million.*

Only about 8% of the UK population was born abroad**. I assume you want them to be the first to go. From where will you find the remaining 42%? Perhaps those with grandparents born abroad, or non-Christians, or gays?



* http://www.optimumpopulation.org/
** http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1312

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Only about 8% of the UK population was born abroad**. I assume you want them to be the first to go. From where will you find the remaining 42%? Perhaps those with grandparents born abroad, or non-Christians, or gays?

That would make you one of the first on the boat wouldn't it Rammy

I take your point though, we have just had a couple of new drivers start, apparently there is a shortage of HGV drivers, so we have imported a few from Hungry and Slovakia, they had been driving a week when their agency phoned to say one of them didn't have a driving licence and was using false documents, it's not like we don't have enough crooks here to drive illegally without importing more, over a million unemployed and four million on the sick and we have a skills shortage

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Well if building on brownfield sites is apparently so easy and profitable, why isn't it happening?

Capitalism. Why spend money on inner city land, when you can get greenbelt land cheaply, and make possibly 7 times the orginal cost instead of 6?

Of course no developer would ever consider a reasonable profit margin (by reasonable, I mean 30-40%).

Actually the fact that that report is suggesting the cheapest option as the right answer to a percieved "problem" rather than really investigating other solutions suggests it was funded by developers.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Only about 8% of the UK population was born abroad**. I assume you want them to be the first to go. From where will you find the remaining 42%? Perhaps those with grandparents born abroad, or non-Christians, or gays?

8% of 6 million is 480 000, that means half a million extra people are here who weren't born here. Perhaps the UK could limit further influx? Perhaps people could be encouraged to produce fewer offspring?
I dont know where you are getting the non christians and gays thing from......perhaps you are making certain unsavoury assumptions about me?

---------- Post added at 14:20 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

That would make you one of the first on the boat wouldn't it Rammy

Believe me, If I could easily leave, I would!
...and if inheritance tax isn't sorted out then we will be selling up and emigrating when we retire anyway!

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

8% of 6 million is 480 000, that means half a million extra people are here who weren't born here. Perhaps the UK could limit further influx? Perhaps people could be encouraged to produce fewer offspring?
I dont know where you are getting the non christians and gays thing from......perhaps you are making certain unsavoury assumptions about me?
...

I just get tired of hearing the old "blame it on the immigrants" arguments whenever a problem is discussed. I didn't mean to slate you personally.

[King Of Fools]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Apart from the occasional "blip", property prices have been rising steadily for decades.

I am not disputing that fact, wages have also been increasing. The problem is that they have not increased in-line with each other.

The main reason the house price bubble has been driven so high is because everybody expects that "house prices always go up" and have been piling money into them at record levels. The sooner house prices correct to their historical average the better, if you ask me. Then the bubble will burst quicker than it has grown!

[Stuart C]

One thing that has always confused me (and something that report seems to totally ignore): While our population has increased by a few million (10, IIRC) since the seventies, property prices have risen all over the country. In some places, property is worth ten times (in terms of actual monetary value) what it was in the seventies. For instance, we bought my current house for about £30,000 in the seventies. Now, it is worth £300,000. Surely inflation has not driven the price that high? And the number of houses needed shouldn't have changed enough to drive that kind of price rise.