Isreali Sperm Row

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

I don't have a problem with sperm donation or donors. The issue I have with this case is that the guy (while alive) said he'd like to be a dad. Because he didnt say he would not like to be a dad if he died, does that mean his sperm should be used.

From the story it looks like its the parents decision to use his sperm after he's died. Is that ethical/fair? Im not sure it is.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

even tho you wouldnt be around to raise the child, or derive no joy whatsoever from it.

But you are assuming a great deal. There are religions that believe your spirit lives on, after your death. Perhaps (and if this sounds flippant, it's not intended) the family believe the guy is "looking down from above", and would derive great joy from seeing his offspring. There could be a religious aspect to this to consider.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

I don't have a problem with sperm donation or donors. The issue I have with this case is that the guy (while alive) said he'd like to be a dad. Because he didnt say he would not like to be a dad if he died, does that mean his sperm should be used.

From the story it looks like its the parents decision to use his sperm after he's died. Is that ethical/fair? Im not sure it is.

You're also assuming that a news article gives you a better insight into his wishes than his parents have.

[Mr Angry]

In all fairness, and good luck to them, SLM's insight seems slightly better founded than the mother's.

The sons wishes were relayed to his mother by means of him talking to her via a photograph an hour after he died.

"Ms Cohen said she was guided in her decision by her dead son. "An hour after being told he had been killed I took his picture and started talking to him. I asked him, 'Where are all the children you wanted?' then looked at the picture and heard him saying, 'Mum, it's not too late. There is something you can take from me'.
"Then it came to me - 'Your sperm, that's what you want me to take from you'. Right there, I asked the officers who came to visit to make sure his sperm be kept."

[Vlad_Dracul]

Originally Posted by dooper786

I think that the only time that frozen sperm should be released for use is

when the male donor of the sperm is there,alive at the point of use and can give his consent

Yes i take your point. What I meant was;

(a) He either pipes it in fresh

(b) authorises the use of his frozen sperm which may have been stored for medical reasons ,for example prior to a procedure which may render him unlikely to be able to produce usable sperm in future in the normal fashion.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

In all fairness, and good luck to them, SLM's insight seems slightly better founded than the mother's.

The sons wishes were relayed to his mother by means of him talking to her via a photograph an hour after he died.

"Ms Cohen said she was guided in her decision by her dead son. "An hour after being told he had been killed I took his picture and started talking to him. I asked him, 'Where are all the children you wanted?' then looked at the picture and heard him saying, 'Mum, it's not too late. There is something you can take from me'.
"Then it came to me - 'Your sperm, that's what you want me to take from you'. Right there, I asked the officers who came to visit to make sure his sperm be kept."

Well, either he did speak to her from the grave, or her mind made up the conversation using what it knew her son would want.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Well, either he did speak to her from the grave, or her mind made up the conversation using what it knew her son would want.

Both of which are, of course, entirely rational and logical processes from which one would expect to arrive at a well reasoned conclusion.

Hold on....is that an ambulance I hear?

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Both of which are, of course, entirely rational and logical processes from which one would expect to arrive at a well reasoned conclusion.

Hold on....is that an ambulance I hear?

What a nice shade of white the crew are wearing

Seriously though, who's more likely to know more about what the donor would have wanted, someone who just read a news article about it, or the donor's parents?

[Mr Angry]

Obviously the parent - and I acknowledge that she was in a state of profound grief when the photo spoke to her and her mind told her to preserve her son's sperm.

Several interesting points on this story though.

This ruling will enable her to become a grandmother (for the first time one would assume from the gist of the statement made) "Every time I go to his grave and touch his cold tombstone I tell myself how wonderful it would be to hold a warm child in my arms instead," she said. "For Keivin, it was his soul's desire to have children."

Her husband has been remarkably quiet on the subject. Not one ex girlfriend has been cited as supporting the mothers claims about her sons wishes and in fact not one girlfriend ex or otherwise has been mentioned, even in passing.

Additionally there is the involvement of New Family whose mission statement is "Every Individual in Israel Has the Right to Establish a Family!"

I think it's clear that this case revolves more around the mothers desire to have a grandchild than any particular wish on her son's part to father children. Shes seems now to have achieved that wish and good luck to her in the challenges that life will throw up to her along the way.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Obviously the parent - and I acknowledge that she was in a state of profound grief when the photo spoke to her and her mind told her to preserve her son's sperm.

Several interesting points on this story though.

This ruling will enable her to become a grandmother (for the first time one would assume from the gist of the statement made) "Every time I go to his grave and touch his cold tombstone I tell myself how wonderful it would be to hold a warm child in my arms instead," she said. "For Keivin, it was his soul's desire to have children."

Her husband has been remarkably quiet on the subject. Not one ex girlfriend has been cited as supporting the mothers claims about her sons wishes and in fact not one girlfriend ex or otherwise has been mentioned, even in passing.

Additionally there is the involvement of New Family whose mission statement is "Every Individual in Israel Has the Right to Establish a Family!"

I think it's clear that this case revolves more around the mothers desire to have a grandchild than any particular wish on her son's part to father children. Shes seems now to have achieved that wish and good luck to her in the challenges that life will throw up to her along the way.

Which could also suggest that he just hadn't met the right girl to have children with?

As Xaccers says, the parent would know better than most (if not all) exactly what her son would want.

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by me283

As Xaccers says, the parent would know better than most (if not all) exactly what her son would want.

Yes, especially a parent who speaks to and receives / assumes instructions from photographs. You're quite right.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Yes, especially a parent who speaks to and receives / assumes instructions from photographs. You're quite right.

As opposed to someone who reads a newspaper report, but has presumably never met the guy?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by me283

As opposed to someone who reads a newspaper report, but has presumably never met the guy?

Yes, I acknowledged this in post #24 which you'd have noticed if you'd cared to look before attempting to start a facile argument.

[me283]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Yes, I acknowledged this in post #24 which you'd have noticed if you'd cared to look before attempting to start a facile argument.

If, heaven forbid, I were to die without making a will, I would like to think that any decisions taken by my loved ones would be respected. After all, they know me better than anyone. They may decide to donate my organs to science/donors, they may give my worldly goods to charity, or they may donate my sperm to the relatively few ladies who haven't been lucky enough to get it for themselves

Whether their wishes appear strange to others or not is irrelevant - they are more likely to know what I would have wanted. I have often visited my late father's grave in troubled times, and felt that he was "speaking" to me. Does that make me unstable? I think not. Combine the two - the lady feels that her son is "speaking" to her from beyond the grave; she has just lost her young son. Now does her claim make even the slightest bit of sense to you?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by me283

If, heaven forbid, I were to die without making a will, I would like to think that any decisions taken by my loved ones would be respected. After all, they know me better than anyone. They may decide to donate my organs to science/donors, they may give my worldly goods to charity, or they may donate my sperm to the relatively few ladies who haven't been lucky enough to get it for themselves

Whether their wishes appear strange to others or not is irrelevant - they are more likely to know what I would have wanted. I have often visited my late father's grave in troubled times, and felt that he was "speaking" to me. Does that make me unstable? I think not. Combine the two - the lady feels that her son is "speaking" to her from beyond the grave; she has just lost her young son. Now does her claim make even the slightest bit of sense to you?

Whilst you "felt" that your late father was speaking to you Mrs Cohen "looked at the picture and heard him saying, 'Mum, it's not too late. There is something you can take from me'.

That is a completely different box of frogs.