Do you know the system will let you down?

Imagine someone who has worked for the last 20 years, paying tax & NI throughout.
Even during one period of unemployment when they were claiming benefit, the system decided that because of the outrageous savings they had (actually, it was a matured endowment policy, but hey - instead of paying it off the mortgage...) that the benefits would be reduced, effectively
meaning that this person was now living off their endowment policy.

So, surviving this by reducing their entire 'savings' to nothing, our hero gets another job.

Now, his employers have gone into administration, owing him at least one month's salary, as well as any redundancy payment he ought to have had.

Now our reluctant hero is trying to see what the benefit system has to offer:

Contributions Based Job Seekers Allowance - yeah - he'll likely get £50+ per week for the next few months.
Income Base Job Seekers Allowance - can't claim because wife works too MANY hours
Income Support - can't claim because wife works too FEW hours
Working Tax Credits - can't claim because wife WORKS

OK - because the employers have bailed out owing him money, he applies to the 'National Insurance Fund' for his redundancy/missed pay - their 'charter' gives them 6 weeks to come back with any answers - but in the mean time his creditors are baying hounds at the door who won't wait 6 minutes - never mind 6 weeks!

I won't even go into this poor chap's housing situation - because he 'owns' his own house he can't expect any assistance from the benefit system for 6 months - too late - by then they'll have reposessed the house.

Now imagine a couple of alternatives.

First, the 'asylum seeker' that arrives on these shores having NEVER paid one iota into the system. They will be met with open arms, offering them housing and all sorts of aid without any real problem. Certainly seems to me that they can all afford the 'luxuries' we might consider as normal - i.e. smoking/drinking/mobile phone. Seems that coming with nothing at all is not a bad strategy.

Second, if you are a single parent that has never worked, then the system wil also give you plenty of support - you will be given housing for free, and all manner of financial assistance that makes doing an honest days' work seem like too much trouble.

Now I can see why our intrepid hero gets a little annoyed at all of this, because if he 'invested' all of his NI payments in health insurance and unemployment insurance etc. he would actually spend LESS each year and get MORE when he needed it. As it is, to get that he needs to spend even MORE than is already deducted in the way of NI payments.

As it is, he's subject to the stupid waiting lists of the NHS, cancellation of NHS services at the 11th hour, precious little in the way of financial support in his hour of need and a general lack of understanding from the financial institutions, just to make matters even more difficult.

Because, don't think that letting your financial service providers know that you're in a fix is going to help you. Oh no. They'll cut off you're credit and squeeze you like a stone (in the hope of getting blood, I guess.)
The bank will merrily charge you overdraft fees, knowing full well that you haven't the means to correct the situation, rather than that you are failing to monitor your finances.
So, not only is his financial situation a nightmare, but it seems as if everyone is doing their best to make it worse!

Now this poor fellow is on anti-depressants, cos his life is going down the tubes. Only problem is, because he doesn't get Income Based Job Seekers Allowance, he has to pay for his prescriptions - but with what?

The attraction of bungy jumping without the bungy is becoming more apparent as time passes...

Now, he's NOT having a go at asylum seekers or lone parents, but it does seem that he is paying for everything, while he can expect nothing in return when HE needs it!
</RANT>

[budwieser]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Imagine someone who has worked for the last 20 years, paying tax & NI throughout.
Even during one period of unemployment when they were claiming benefit, the system decided that because of the outrageous savings they had (actually, it was a matured endowment policy, but hey - instead of paying it off the mortgage...) that the benefits would be reduced, effectively
meaning that this person was now living off their endowment policy.

So, surviving this by reducing their entire 'savings' to nothing, our hero gets another job.

Now, his employers have gone into administration, owing him at least one month's salary, as well as any redundancy payment he ought to have had.

Now our reluctant hero is trying to see what the benefit system has to offer:

Contributions Based Job Seekers Allowance - yeah - he'll likely get £50+ per week for the next few months.
Income Base Job Seekers Allowance - can't claim because wife works too MANY hours
Income Support - can't claim because wife works too FEW hours
Working Tax Credits - can't claim because wife WORKS

OK - because the employers have bailed out owing him money, he applies to the 'National Insurance Fund' for his redundancy/missed pay - their 'charter' gives them 6 weeks to come back with any answers - but in the mean time his creditors are baying hounds at the door who won't wait 6 minutes - never mind 6 weeks!

I won't even go into this poor chap's housing situation - because he 'owns' his own house he can't expect any assistance from the benefit system for 6 months - too late - by then they'll have reposessed the house.

Now imagine a couple of alternatives.

First, the 'asylum seeker' that arrives on these shores having NEVER paid one iota into the system. They will be met with open arms, offering them housing and all sorts of aid without any real problem. Certainly seems to me that they can all afford the 'luxuries' we might consider as normal - i.e. smoking/drinking/mobile phone. Seems that coming with nothing at all is not a bad strategy.

Second, if you are a single parent that has never worked, then the system wil also give you plenty of support - you will be given housing for free, and all manner of financial assistance that makes doing an honest days' work seem like too much trouble.

Now I can see why our intrepid hero gets a little annoyed at all of this, because if he 'invested' all of his NI payments in health insurance and unemployment insurance etc. he would actually spend LESS each year and get MORE when he needed it. As it is, to get that he needs to spend even MORE than is already deducted in the way of NI payments.

As it is, he's subject to the stupid waiting lists of the NHS, cancellation of NHS services at the 11th hour, precious little in the way of financial support in his hour of need and a general lack of understanding from the financial institutions, just to make matters even more difficult.

Because, don't think that letting your financial service providers know that you're in a fix is going to help you. Oh no. They'll cut off you're credit and squeeze you like a stone (in the hope of getting blood, I guess.)
The bank will merrily charge you overdraft fees, knowing full well that you haven't the means to correct the situation, rather than that you are failing to monitor your finances.
So, not only is his financial situation a nightmare, but it seems as if everyone is doing their best to make it worse!

Now this poor fellow is on anti-depressants, cos his life is going down the tubes. Only problem is, because he doesn't get Income Based Job Seekers Allowance, he has to pay for his prescriptions - but with what?

The attraction of bungy jumping without the bungy is becoming more apparent as time passes...

Now, he's NOT having a go at asylum seekers or lone parents, but it does seem that he is paying for everything, while he can expect nothing in return when HE needs it!
</RANT>

Is this a General Rant ? Or is it more personal?

Originally Posted by budwieser

Is this a General Rant ? Or is it more personal?

Definitely.



i.e. The latter...

This is NOT conjecture - this is how it is on the ground for Joe Average. And it's only the tip of the iceberg, as far as the injustice of it all.

[BBKing]

Poor guy - his own house and substantial savings. Much worse off than the asylum seeker with no house, no savings and escaping torture and dictatorship.

Not knocking, just pointing out the other side of the story.

BBK (no house, no savings)

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Poor guy - his own house and substantial savings.

So, surviving this by reducing their entire 'savings' to nothing, our hero gets another job.

[Steve H]

Originally Posted by BBKing

Poor guy - his own house and substantial savings. Much worse off than the asylum seeker with no house, no savings and escaping torture and dictatorship.

Not knocking, just pointing out the other side of the story.

BBK (no house, no savings)

I'm not knocking your post either, but to be honest I don't give a flying **** about there situation.

Give me a good reason why someone should be able to enter this country and claim benifits without making any contribution towards society, as is seemingly happening?

No offence, but they should most definatly not come first.

IMO the problem lies in funding for the social security system (my partner works for a charity working with disadvantaged young people and the hardship she sees daily is horrific). Anyone vote for increased taxes at the election?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

IMO the problem lies in funding for the social security system (my partner works for a charity working with disadvantaged young people and the hardship she sees daily is horrific). Anyone vote for increased taxes at the election?

If it goes to the genuinely needy British--starting with oap's, I'd pay more......

Originally Posted by Ramrod

If it goes to the genuinely needy British--starting with oap's, I'd pay more......

Genuinely needy is a subjective term. Certainly the kids my partner deals with are genuinely needy (EDIT. Best qualify that with "IMO" ). Aside from that, we are though, an international player with international obligations. I could go on about the cost of tax avoidance but I reckon you've heard that one before!

[me283]

Originally Posted by Steve H

I'm not knocking your post either, but to be honest I don't give a flying **** about there situation.

Give me a good reason why someone should be able to enter this country and claim benifits without making any contribution towards society, as is seemingly happening?

No offence, but they should most definatly not come first.

Well said. But in this day and age, there are too many people looking for a problem to solve, or a lost cause to salvage. The poor bleeding hearts all want to help someone, and consider that everyone who doesn't share that view is just avaricious and heartless. But some of us believe that you get what you work for, and nothing should be for free.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

Genuinely needy is a subjective term.

I said 'genuinely needy British'

Certainly the kids my partner deals with are genuinely needy

Then they should get a dip in the pot.....

Aside from that, we are though, an international player with international obligations.

But ( I strongly believe that) we should look afer our own first and only then look after others

I could go on about the cost of tax avoidance but I reckon you've heard that one before!

Perhaps a topic for another thread
__________________

I have no problem with the UK looking after the worlds basket cases (my parents came under that heading when they arrived here) but only once this countries needy have been catered for......

I'm going to dip out of this one now because it may end up as one of many similarly themed threads (no offence intended to you Rammy - I'm sure you know where I'm coming from though )

SWW, my sympathies to your friend. The system, and those who adminster it (personal experience kicking in there) can be very cruel and injust. Hope things get better for your mate.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by andyl

I'm going to dip out of this one now because it may end up as one of many similarly themed threads (no offence intended to you Rammy - I'm sure you know where I'm coming from though ).

Hold it right there pardner.....this here thread is nice and friendly.....we are all agreeing........no need for you to leave

[me283]

What I don't get is just who is going to help someone like this? Whereas there are always people rushing to help the "needy" (some of whom may be, but a hell of a lot aren't). It's a bit reminiscent of a statistic I once heard that said there are a large number of organisations to support criminals, but only a handful to support victims of crime. Sorry, I don't have the actual figures to quote.

[iron25]

Originally Posted by ScaredWebWarrior

Now, he's NOT having a go at asylum seekers or lone parents, but it does seem that he is paying for everything, while he can expect nothing in return when HE needs it!
</RANT>

I wouldn't mind if you were having a go at asylum seekers or lone parents considering the report in today's paper about a loophole in the benefits system where two asylum seekers are to receive payments of around £15,000 in back dated benefits

I totally agree that our benefits system absolutely sucks and the only way to get money out of it is to cheat, lie or start several families with three different women and not work a day in your life but still manage to rake in many thousands of pounds a year. The hard working people of this country should not be subsidising alot of the scum that claim benefits.

I'm sure there are plenty of lone parents that are deserving cases and I have nothing against them but when you hear stories likes this or read them in the newspaper it just makes you What I really hate are the stories of families of 6 living on benefits whilst both parents don't work yet they still have the audacity to claim that they deserve a bigger house to live in as their current one is too small What about those families of 5-6 where both parents work hard yet still struggle...do the government care about them no

How difficult do you think it would be to setup a benefits system where the people that deserved the benefits actually got them and those that are so obviously taking the mickey are told where to go I know I could make it work