I think I'm turning into Margaret Thatcher....

[orangebird]

I actually agree with this ...

[Angua]

Too scary! A not unreasonable point from an unexpected source.

[punky]

I can appreciate the sentiments, but I get extremely wary when the government forces people to do anything. It should be use as an extreme last resort.

That said though, immigrants aren't citizens and should be treated accordingly. I do think immigrants should be given (or forced to satistfy) more conditions on entry, including having to pass english, maths, science and PSE tests. If they don't like it, that's their tough titties and they can leave, they have the option. However, citizens for the most part, can't leave so I don't think it should be retroactively applied.

I think citizens should be encouraged to immerse themselves in British life more, particularly in the case of Muslims which is a very insular community, but certainly not forced.

[andygrif]

I think he makes an interesting point.

The problem I have is that you can't force people to integrate, and even if you could does that mean that Brits should be forced to integrate with the locals when we go on holiday or live in another country? Should Brits in Dubai be forced to go to the Mosque on a Friday? Give up alcohol?

The other problem is how you actually do this. It's all very well as a soundbite saying that the government should end their multicultural policy, but I bet he wouldn't have the balls to do it if he became leader of the Tories, and PM.

However, he does say some things which I agree with, namely:

"Britain has a proud history of tolerance towards people of different views, faiths and backgrounds. But we should not flinch from demanding the same tolerance and respect for the British way of life."

[Jules]

I agree that it would be a good idea for them to integrate more.

If I went to live in India, China, USA etc i would expect and be happy to follow there rules and way of life

[Graham]

What a wonderfully stupid piece of political opportunism by a potential Tory Leader (gosh, I wonder if that's why he's come out with that now?!)

How do you *force* people to integrate with "British Life" (whatever that actually is, nobody seems to have defined it)? What *are* these "common values of nationhood"?

"Britain has a proud history of tolerance towards people of different views, faiths and backgrounds. But we should not flinch from demanding the same tolerance and respect for the British way of life."

Again, what is this "tolerance and respect" he "demands"? How are we going to enforce this?

"We should learn lessons from abroad - from the United States, where pride in the nation's values is much more prevalent among minorities than here," Mr Davis said.

I think we *can* learn things from the US, but whether "pride in the nation's values" (or is that "my country right or wrong"?) is one of them, I'm really not so sure.

"Non-Muslims have obligations to their Muslim fellow citizens to strive for equal opportunities for all, to accept the mainstream version of Islam as part of society, and to reject the vile racism of the BNP and its like.

"But Muslims in turn have obligations: not simply to condemn terror, as one Labour MP put it, but to confront it."

So there's a loud mouthed minority who are getting coverage in the papers so the papers can then proudly proclaim their "British!" credendials by loudly condemning what *they* are themselves publicising!

Forget that most Muslims have roundly condemned the bombers and say that they have nothing to do with what Islam is really about, that doesn't make for good ranting headlines.

"People such as Mr Naseem do no favours to the Muslim community. After all, Muslims too are in the sights of the Islamic extremists," he said.

And people like Mr Davis do no favours to the *British* community with stupid statements like this that seem to be saying to Muslims and other immigrants: "Be what *we* want you to be, or else!"

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Graham

And people like Mr Davis do no favours to the *British* community with stupid statements like this

Stupid statements?

So because you don't agree with it that means it is automatically wrong and without merit?

What is wrong with having a level playing field without having to worry about offending a minority. Why shouldn't people who choose to live here integrate into society instead of setting up their own schools etc?

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Graham

And people like Mr Davis do no favours to the *British* community with stupid statements like this that seem to be saying to Muslims and other immigrants: "Be what *we* want you to be, or else!"

If by "Be what we want you to be" he means to embrace our culture, how on earth can that be a bad thing if we're giving them a home?

[Macca371]

I totally agree with what is said there, although I feel that the British traditional way of life is dying out very quickly. We should stop bending over backwards to accomodate other cultures.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Stupid statements?

So because you don't agree with it that means it is automatically wrong and without merit?

Had I said that without the rest of the post explaining my position, you might have a point.

Since I *did* explain my point (but you seem to have not commented on) you don't.

What is wrong with having a level playing field without having to worry about offending a minority. Why shouldn't people who choose to live here integrate into society instead of setting up their own schools etc?

Why should minorities be treated as unimportant simply because they *are* a minority?

And as for schools, I suggest you ask what Mr Reg Vardy is up to before you start criticising immigrants for their schooling wants...

http://education.guardian.co.uk/scho...664608,00.html
__________________

Originally Posted by Russ D

If by "Be what we want you to be" he means to embrace our culture, how on earth can that be a bad thing if we're giving them a home?

*Why* should we "force" them to embrace our "culture" (whatever that may be) simply because they come to live here?

Should they have to learn to drink 15 lagers, eat a curry and insult an Indian waiter? Or maybe eat pork sausages? Or give up their religion and convert to Christianity?

Just because you move to a new country does not and *should not* mean you have to throw away everything that you had before.
__________________

Originally Posted by Diamond

the British traditional way of life is dying out very quickly. We should stop bending over backwards to accomodate other cultures.

The "traditions British way of life" is a complete mish-mash of cultures that has accumulated over the last few thousand years!

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Graham

Why should minorities be treated as unimportant simply because they *are* a minority?

They shouldn't be treated as more important because they *are* a minority. They should be treated exactly the same as everyone else.

Originally Posted by Graham

And as for schools, I suggest you ask what Mr Reg Vardy is up to before you start criticising immigrants for their schooling wants...

http://education.guardian.co.uk/scho...664608,00.html

Originally Posted by The Guardian

State-funded secondary teachers do not accept findings of Darwin

Tania Branigan
Saturday March 9, 2002

Hmmm. Nothing from within the last 3 years?

I'm basically against any specific religious schools which I consider create problems by splitting children into different groups purely based on their parents beliefs.

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Graham

The "traditions British way of life" is a complete mish-mash of cultures that has accumulated over the last few thousand years!

That doesn't mean people want or need it to be 'mish-mashed' any further!

[Flubflow]

Originally Posted by Diamond

I totally agree with what is said there, although I feel that the British traditional way of life is dying out very quickly. We should stop bending over backwards to accomodate other cultures.

What way of life? Gardening, beer, fish'n'chips, picnics, working in an office?

[Macca371]

Originally Posted by Flubflow

What way of life? Gardening, beer, fish'n'chips, picnics, working in an office?

Ok well maybe not the 'Traditional British way of life' bit, but generally, just life how I want to be.

I have been rejected from a job before because of racial equality laws - Morrisons had to employ somebody from a minority group because of a ratio , my muslim friend is allowed more time off college than me so that he can pray, we have had our nursery rhymes destroyed and modified in order to not offend minority groups (bah bah green sheep), and the tonnes of political correctness which have appeared because of the intense oversensitivity of offending other cultures.
Life in Britain is affected by this oversensitivity.

That to me is bending over backwards.

[Damien]

"Often the authorities have seemed more concerned with encouraging distinctive identities than with promoting common values of nationhood."

What is the British Identify anyway? And if they do not what to have our culture, whatever that is, then whats wrong with that? It doesn't hurt me, its up to them. Surely trying to get everyone to be the same under a common value of nationhood is exactly what we are not
__________________

Originally Posted by Diamond

Ok well maybe not the 'Traditional British way of life' bit, but generally, just life how I want to be.

I have been rejected from a job before because of racial equality laws - Morrisons had to employ somebody from a minority group because of a ratio , my muslim friend is allowed more time off college than me so that he can pray, we have had our nursery rhymes destroyed and modified in order to not offend minority groups (bah bah green sheep), and the tonnes of political correctness which have appeared because of the intense oversensitivity of offending other cultures.
Life in Britain is affected by this oversensitivity.

That to me is bending over backwards.

I have never heard anyone way ba ba green sheep or change stuff like that. I have seen a couple of comments removed from old sitcoms on uktv but hey. They didnt remove it on all channels so there you go.

The college thing is religious and at the end of the day it doesnt affect your education. You dont have to go to college and if you find your self resenting someone who can have time off then ask yourself if you wanna be there