I think I'm turning into Margaret Thatcher....

The British way of life?

Reading these pages, I would never have thought there would be such a heated battle of words. But why?

Certainly in the African countries I know there is a way of life, they don't call it that but it is built on attitude, customs, family values, tradition, culture etc and they are not ashamed or apologetic to anyone either, they are remarkably conservative people, who would be victims of liberal opinion here, and by the way I did learn the local languages.

If people think and believe there is a way of life then what's wrong with them holding these opinions? If someone like Yasmin Alibhai - Brown thinks there is no such thing as Englishness has she missed something? Has she not seen or experienced the positive recognised by someone like David Blunkett in a recent lecture. All the nations in the UK: English, Scots, Welsh, Northern Irish hold similar values.

Those on this site who hold supposedly liberal opinions tend to jump down people's throats for holding a different opinion, something rather alien to liberal opinion I would have thought.

If David Davies or Boris Johnson have a view on Britishness or David Blunkett on Englishness then should we not respect them rather than consigning them to a bin marked fascist! We are becoming rather intolerant and missing one of those ingredients of Britishness, listening to other people's views, understanding them and not closing our minds, engage in debate why not? But let's see toleration a quality of Britishness if you like and not blind bitterness.

I think there is a Britishness, an Englishness etc,etc but these qualities can be many things to many different people.

[Damien]

But no one is saying it is wrong fro them to hold that view (although we are asking what exactly they mean by it).

And it is not David davies holding a view we are worried about, it is saying that muslims should be forced into the 'british way of life'.

Originally Posted by Damien

But no one is saying it is wrong fro them to hold that view (although we are asking what exactly they mean by it).
And it is not David davies holding a view we are worried about, it is saying that muslims should be forced into the 'british way of life'.

Oh dear I should have written David Davis not David Davies who is another MP.

I'm having problems with this "forced". I've read several accounts of his speech but I can't locate "forced" would you kindly show a link where it states this.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by dezzo

as to why people should be forced to learn English. What is the official language of the UK?
If they cannot speak English then they will struggle to perform basic tasks in society.

Yes, they will struggle, but that is not a reason to "ban them" from this country.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Yes, they will struggle, but that is not a reason to "ban them" from this country.

Who's suggesting banning them from this country? Did I miss something?

[Graham]

Originally Posted by punky

The "British way of life" is anything a Briton wants to do (legally, of course). Whenever we have to, stop, re-write or otherwise modify our behavior to satistify non-Britons, that is destroying our way of life. We should not be dictated about what we can and can't do by immigrants. If immigrants come here, it is do as we say.

But when they immigrate here and *become* British citizens, your argument appears to be that they *STILL* cannot do what they want to do (legally, of course) because that would be "destroying the British way of life" and not "doing as we say"!!

There is a certain ironic contradiction here that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
__________________

Originally Posted by Russ D

Perhaps where you live.

And that is, probably entirely unwittingly(!) a very good point.

Where *you* live is not where *I* live or where *he* lives.

Here we live in the stockbroker belt and watch cricket and sip red wine. There they wear flat caps and own whippets and sup brown ale. Somewhere else they do things entirely differently.

All of these are as much "British Culture" as any other, to try to classify it all under one big all-encompassing banner is ridiculous.

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by Graham

But when they immigrate here and *become* British citizens, your argument appears to be that they *STILL* cannot do what they want to do (legally, of course) because that would be "destroying the British way of life" and not "doing as we say"!!

There is a certain ironic contradiction here that would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I *think* what punky is saying is that if people move over here, they *should* try and blend in with the local population, and not expect the Local Population to change their lives to accomodate the newcomers. As an example, if a british person went to Saudi, they shouldn't just demand the Saudi's allow them to drink Alcohol wherever they want. They should try and blend in with the population.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by basa

Has no-one realised that it is precisely because we have constantly allowed the British culture to be manipulated and distorted by immigrants demands and manoeverings that we can no longer define British culture.

As I pointed out before, we've had many cultures over the millennia, from various invasions etc, but to suggest that somehow we have been "manipulated" or that whatever we had (whatever that was!) has been "distorted" is nonsense.

[marky]

On a lighter side the official favourite british food is chicken tikka massala

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Graham

Yes, they will struggle, but that is not a reason to "ban them" from this country.

Another wild assumption. Unlike you Graham

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by dezzo

Another wild assumption. Unlike you Graham

Yes, I'd still like to know who Graham thinks is calling for non-english speaking people to be banned from Britain

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Who's suggesting banning them from this country? Did I miss something?

Yes, I think you did...!!!

Post #18 - Ramrod: "if I went to live in and took citizenship in, lets say Afghanistan, I wouldn't have the gall to complain if the Afghans demanded that I learn the language and properly integrate into their culture-as a condition of being Afghani."

Post #29 - Ramrod: "No English....no passport....easy......"

Post #43 - whyme38: "It is very simple, if you live in a country you follow it's way of life including learning to speak the language, if you do not like the way of life etc you don't live in that country!

[Jules]

I didn't say ban them though Graham, I was just saying if you don't like a country with its customs and language then you do not live there

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

I *think* what punky is saying is that if people move over here, they *should* try and blend in with the local population, and not expect the Local Population to change their lives to accomodate the newcomers.

Sorry?

Could anyone cite where has anyone been *forced* to change their lives to accomodate the newcomers? (And, please, can we have credible sources, not wild exaggerations from The Sun!)

As an example, if a british person went to Saudi, they shouldn't just demand the Saudi's allow them to drink Alcohol wherever they want. They should try and blend in with the population.

I'm not aware of any Brits who have demanded this.

[punky]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

I *think* what punky is saying is that if people move over here, they *should* try and blend in with the local population, and not expect the Local Population to change their lives to accommodate the newcomers. As an example, if a British person went to Saudi, they shouldn't just demand the Saudi's allow them to drink Alcohol wherever they want. They should try and blend in with the population.

That is exactly right.

And Graham, I quite clearly made the distinction between a citizen and immigrant in my first post in this thread. Current citizens shouldn't be forced to do anything, but if the current incoming immigrants, and asylum seekers adhere to new rules, if they become citizens in 7 years time, are they just going to suddenly forget everything that have done for 7 years, and stop being respectful of us? Start speaking in barely comprehensible English? Suddenly demand that we respect their cultures and beliefs without them returning the courtesy? Don't think so.