I think I'm turning into Margaret Thatcher....

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by Graham

No, Russ, not "in my opinion" it is a basic and fundamental *FACT*!

As Graham speaks, so it comes to pass, eh?

Originally Posted by Graham

Just *look* at the history of this country over the past hundred or so years.

Votes for women.

Equal rights for blacks.

The virtual elimination of the "class structure"

Gay rights.

Women going out to work instead of just "making homes" and, indeed, running their own businesses (or, in one case, the country!)

These are just a few of the social changes that have taken place in comparitively recent times and there are many, many more.

And with the possible exception of what you've said about blacks, those are changes brought on by circumstances WITHIN our national boundaries - hardly anyone will disagree with that kind of evolving.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by dezzo

They shouldn't be treated as more important because they *are* a minority.

But (once again) I am not saying they *should* be "treated as more important".

They should be treated exactly the same as everyone else.

I agree entirely.

Curiously there seem to be others on these forums who seem to have an *entirely* different opinion...!

Hmmm. Nothing from within the last 3 years?

Oh ye gods!(!) I chose *one* example at random, don't get picky.

I'm basically against any specific religious schools which I consider create problems by splitting children into different groups purely based on their parents beliefs.

So you would outlaw Catholic schools? And, for that matter, what about schools that don't *want* to split children up in that way *because* of their parents' "beliefs" (or lack thereof)?!
__________________

Originally Posted by Diamond

Ok well maybe not the 'Traditional British way of life' bit, but generally, just life how I want to be.

And *THAT* is the really telling point!
__________________

Originally Posted by Russ D

Conveniently missing out the last one of course....

A totally meaningless catch-all.

As I've just said above, Diamond's comment "Ok well maybe not the 'Traditional British way of life' bit, but generally, just life how I want to be." sums this up nicely.

It would take me all night to post a comprehensive list of pastimes and traits which actually are 'British Culture' however they are purely subjective as there will always be those who will conveniently disagree with being involved with them as to them it 'doesn't exist'

You could have written that sentence with a full stop after "purely subjective" and been spot on...!

[Graham]

Given recent statements from the Team I have decided to edit out sections of my original reply and Ramrod's comments.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

No English....no passport....easy......

That totally fails to answer my question.

And IIRC you have mentioned that English is your second language. When did you learn English? If your parents had immigrated (presuming that was what happened) before you had, should you have been excluded?

For that matter my next door neighbour (who, gosh, I do believe may be a *MUSLIM* gentleman!) doesn't speak English very well at all, but he's got a couple of nice polite and well behaved kids (unlike many of those brought up in a "British Culture"!!) who speak English perfectly well.

Should he not have been allowed into the country because he wasn't good at English?

Thats nice......'course they raise and influence their children

Err, yes, parents raise and influence their children. That is what being a parent is *about*!

Are you saying that it should be *illegal* for immigrant parents to do this? (Note: this is more irony)

No. they stop you building churches

So? That's their choice. But they don't insist they adopt their ways.

Only behind closed doors and in secret--get real!

What am I not "being real" about? Again they are *not* "forcing" others to adopt their ways.

No, I don't think you are m8. You seem to be against preserving everything this country and it's original inhabitants stand for

"Original inhabitants", that would be the Welsh and some small parts of Cornwall, Scotland and some bits of Ireland, yes?

After all, let's have a think about some of those who have paid us visits over the millennia: The Romans, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans...
__________________

Originally Posted by Russ D

As Graham speaks, so it comes to pass, eh?

No, Russ, it is a process that exists. You can see it everywhere in the world if you choose to look.

And with the possible exception of what you've said about blacks, those are changes brought on by circumstances WITHIN our national boundaries - hardly anyone will disagree with that kind of evolving.

Firstly there *were* plenty of people who *did* entirely disagree with that kind of evolving!

Secondly world events effect many changes whether we like it or not, eg women going out to work was in large part due to them having to take factory jobs when the men went off to fight the war and then them saying "no, we're not going to go back to being good little housewives any more".

Thirdly you cannot pick and choose what sort of change happens and what doesn't.

For example the French have tried this by making up new words to replace English ones to "maintain the purity of the French Language", yet still these changes happen.

Change happens. It will happen whether you like it or not. What you consider "British Culture" now is not the "British Culture" of the last fifty or a hundred or two hundred years and won't be the "British Culture" of the next hundred.

I don't know what form that culture *will* take, but it won't be what we see now.

[Monster Jedi]

This topic is getting over heated my friends

Originally Posted by Russ D

Going for a pie and chips after a night out on the lash.

Surely that's out of date as our culture has evolved so going out for curry is the favoured choice after a night out on the lash.

Nipping down to the pub on a sunday afternoon.

50+ million people got to the pub on Sunday. We'll need that 24 hour licencing and more.

Watching the match on a saturday then moaning to your mates how crap your team were.

Don't forget angling, Britain's biggest participant sport.

Moaning about the weather.

I'll let you have that one.

Countless other things.

That'll include chants of "Tits Out For The Lads" according to another thread.

[Xaccers]

Can I just say, as someone who's been an ex-pat in Saudi arabia, alcohol consumption by anyone is totally illegal.
The only places where non muslim religious worship buildings can be built is within embassy grounds as technically that is foreign soil.
People are allowed to stay in this country without needing a british passport, so therefore stating that someone must have a compentent level of understanding of english to become a british citizen would not prevent anyone coming to this country to live, they just would not be able to become a british citizen. So the argument that if a child or other family member does not speak english then they would be left behind or denied entry is totally erroneous and shows complete lack of understanding of the immigration process.

[Angua]

Everyone goes on about football when the most popular spectator sport is Greyhound Racing.

As for a tory attitude as such, it revolves around spending as little as possible (often with a total disregard of the needs of the locality), and an attitude "we have a god (whichever version they support) given right to be in charge". There is no racism within this frame of mind whatsoever. This is based on two years of being on the local council and quietly observing what they actually do.

[Derek S]

Originally Posted by Graham

So you would outlaw Catholic schools? And, for that matter, what about schools that don't *want* to split children up in that way *because* of their parents' "beliefs" (or lack thereof)?!

Yes. The problem seems to be more acute in the West of Scotland but you are splitting children up who could live side by side and then because of the beliefs of their parents they no longer go to school with each other.

By all means have religious education aimed at specific religions but to have a whole school (whether Catholic / Muslim etc.) is to my mind a form of religious apartheid.

Oh and as to why people should be forced to learn English. What is the official language of the UK?
If they cannot speak English then they will struggle to perform basic tasks in society.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

__________________

Graham--What exactly do you have against the British way of life and culture? 'Cos you seem to be hell bent on seeing it destroyed

Well said

I like the British way of life and would like it to stay. why should i change my way of life in my country just in case it up set's someone from another country. Who btw has chosen " by legal or illegal means" to come here. They are not forced to come here.

[punky]

The "British way of life" is anything a Briton wants to do (legally, of course). Whenever we have to, stop, re-write or otherwise modify our behavior to satistify non-Britons, that is destroying our way of life. We should not be dictated about what we can and can't do by immigrants. If immigrants come here, it is do as we say. If they don't like it, tough s**t on them, they can go back home. And if we give sanctuary to an asylum seeker, how they have the gall to complain we should be bending to their needs, i'll never know.

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by andyl

Surely that's out of date as our culture has evolved so going out for curry is the favoured choice after a night out on the lash.

Perhaps where you live.

Originally Posted by andyl

50+ million people got to the pub on Sunday. We'll need that 24 hour licencing and more.

.....erm, so this week's award of "pointless and out of place comment" goes to the above?

Originally Posted by andyl

Don't forget angling, Britain's biggest participant sport.

Yeah, so?

Originally Posted by andyl

I'll let you have that one.

Gee thanks.

Originally Posted by andyl

That'll include chants of "Tits Out For The Lads" according to another thread.

Possibly. Although that's something of a primal activity it's at least slightly more restrained towards women than some cultures.

Originally Posted by punky

The "British way of life" is anything a Briton wants to do (legally, of course). Whenever we have to, stop, re-write or otherwise modify our behavior to satistify non-Britons, that is destroying our way of life. We should not be dictated about what we can and can't do by immigrants. If immigrants come here, it is do as we say. If they don't like it, tough s**t on them, they can go back home. And if we give sanctuary to an asylum seeker, how they have the gall to complain we should be bending to their needs, i'll never know.

Glad to see there are some who will defend this country and it's way of life instead of bending over backwards to destroy it.

[Jules]

It is very simple, if you live in a country you follow it's way of life including learning to speak the language, if you do not like the way of life etc you don't live in that country!

I really do not see what the problem with this is, no one makes any one come here to live!

[Russ B]

Originally Posted by whyme38

It is very simple, if you live in a country you follow it's way of life including learning to speak the language, if you do not like the way of life etc you don't live in that country!

I really do not see what the problem with this is, no one makes any one come here to live!

Great idea! Let's kick all the English out of Wales then

[Jules]

"slap" Russ