Freedom of press under attack?
30-06-2005, 23:35
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#1
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Freedom of press under attack?
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30-06-2005, 23:37
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#2
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Cable Forum Team
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
That's the last they'll ever see of those machines again then.....
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For Clarity: Bold = Moderating Decision/Comment :: Normal = My Opinion/Comment
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30-06-2005, 23:56
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#3
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
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Just to make it clear if a post is bold and is from a team member, it's a moderating decision. If it's not bold or not from a team member, it's not.
"This is an important announcement. This is flight 121 to Los Angeles. If your travel plans today do not include Los Angeles, now would be a perfect time to disembark.”
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01-07-2005, 00:05
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#4
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Permanently Banned
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
It's Dissgracefull. The police's job is to get the motorist. Nothing more. Nothing Less. The motorist is the Harden Criminal. You would think that they would have better things to do. Like vehicle checks, Speed traps.It's outrageous 
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01-07-2005, 00:05
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#5
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
Bit of an overkill in the links department there scastle.. 
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01-07-2005, 00:12
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#6
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
In this particular instance, I can't see anything wrong. They hinded a police investigation.
They are pretty reaching though when they say "There is no free press here". If that is so then how did the post come about anyway? There is nothing wrong with the posting, indeed the police want it to go on, but there is something wrong with deliberately hindering police investigations with misguided loyalties or ill though out principles.
Does seem like an awful lot of work for vandalism though. You'd expect this kind of thing for murder cases. Not that it makes a difference, I suppose. :shrurg:
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Last edited by punky; 01-07-2005 at 00:16.
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01-07-2005, 01:26
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#7
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
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Originally Posted by punky
In this particular instance, I can't see anything wrong. They hinded a police investigation.
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Journalists and newspapers are not obliged to reveal their sources to the Police just because the Police demand that information.
Web based publishers should, likewise, be protected from heavy handed Police action.
What has happened here is nothing less than the equivalent of the Police walking into the offices of any newspaper and shutting them down and is completely unacceptable.
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01-07-2005, 10:34
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#8
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
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Originally Posted by Incognitas
Bit of an overkill in the links department there scastle.. |
Didn't mean any offence. I was just backing up your story.
It does seem that for whatever reason, the Authorities have something against this company..
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Graham
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Originally Posted by punky
In this particular instance, I can't see anything wrong. They hinded a police investigation.
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Journalists and newspapers are not obliged to reveal their sources to the Police just because the Police demand that information.
Web based publishers should, likewise, be protected from heavy handed Police action.
What has happened here is nothing less than the equivalent of the Police walking into the offices of any newspaper and shutting them down and is completely unacceptable. |
I think the problem is that the Authorities do NOT recognise web sites as newspapers.. I personally think they should.
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Just to make it clear if a post is bold and is from a team member, it's a moderating decision. If it's not bold or not from a team member, it's not.
"This is an important announcement. This is flight 121 to Los Angeles. If your travel plans today do not include Los Angeles, now would be a perfect time to disembark.”
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01-07-2005, 10:41
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#9
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
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Originally Posted by punky
In this particular instance, I can't see anything wrong. They hinded a police investigation.
They are pretty reaching though when they say "There is no free press here". If that is so then how did the post come about anyway? There is nothing wrong with the posting, indeed the police want it to go on, but there is something wrong with deliberately hindering police investigations with misguided loyalties or ill though out principles.
Does seem like an awful lot of work for vandalism though. You'd expect this kind of thing for murder cases. Not that it makes a difference, I suppose. :shrurg:
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I have to say (as someone who has worked in the media for a long time) I actually agree with you on this.
Reading deeper into this issue, it appears that a forum poster posted something relating to a crime. The Transport Police wanted to know who it was, Indymedia told them to go forth and multiply, Transport Police got a warrant to investigate.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Graham
Journalists and newspapers are not obliged to reveal their sources to the Police just because the Police demand that information.
Web based publishers should, likewise, be protected from heavy handed Police action.
What has happened here is nothing less than the equivalent of the Police walking into the offices of any newspaper and shutting them down and is completely unacceptable.
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Normally I would agree with you, and if Indymedia has written a spot about the vandalism themselves, quoting their source, this would be a different matter.
The law does not extend to the newer phenomenon of forums where info is contributed from non-journalistic sources. I'm not saying it's right, just how it is.
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01-07-2005, 12:42
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#10
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
Yes but how many bone fide online newspapers that are truly journalistic now have to worry?
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01-07-2005, 13:31
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#11
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
I guess we will have to wait and see Incog...I am hopeful that this is a blip - the freedom of the press is incredibly important to democracy.
Let's be clear, though, no-one is stopping Indymedia from publishing allegations or information about crimes. They should have back-ups in place in case of technical problems, so one assumes that the same information that triggered the warrant should still be available online.
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01-07-2005, 16:31
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#12
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
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Originally Posted by Graham
Journalists and newspapers are not obliged to reveal their sources to the Police just because the Police demand that information.
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I was aware of that, like priests are under no obligation to provide police with information gained during confession.
I am a bit aphrensive with that though. This is only vandalism which you could say is a petty charge*, making the police in this instance look over zealous, but what if it was murder, or rape? Could you then justify papers/journalists witholding evidence? Evidence which could bring the criminals to account? If not, where do you draw the line between a serious and non-serious crime? This is obstruction of justice, they are as good as hiding a fugitive in their office building. Providing the police go to a judge (who are normally quite liberal) and gets a signed warrant, I think police should be able to seize equiptment if it is willfully obstructing justice like this. Don't think this is some principled stand they are making, they are causing trouble for trouble's sake.
Note, Indymedia's servers wern't seized because of something they were saying (i.e. freedom of the press) they were seized because of what they wern't saying.
*The charge was vandalism, which could mean he tagged a train, but could mean he left something on the rails which could have derailed the train killing people.
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Last edited by punky; 01-07-2005 at 16:49.
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01-07-2005, 18:42
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#13
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Re: Freedom of press under attack?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by punky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Graham
Journalists and newspapers are not obliged to reveal their sources to the Police just because the Police demand that information.
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what if it was murder, or rape? Could you then justify papers/journalists witholding evidence? |
This is not what happened, though, they were not "witholding evidence".
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This is obstruction of justice, they are as good as hiding a fugitive in their office building.
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This is utter nonsense.
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Providing the police go to a judge (who are normally quite liberal) and gets a signed warrant, I think police should be able to seize equiptment if it is willfully obstructing justice like this. Don't think this is some principled stand they are making, they are causing trouble for trouble's sake.
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Unfortunately I *do* think this is a principled stand and *not* just "causing trouble for trouble's sake" and so does Liberty and the NUJ.
IMO the Police completely over-reacted by siezing the servers, this was totally unnecessary unless, after getting the warrant, the site owners *then* refused to pass on the information.
As the article says:
Quote:
Police can go to court to get media outlets to hand over information for specific reasons including the prevention or detection of crime.
But Kurt Opsahl, staff attorney at the digital rights group, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said the police actions were "troubling".
"By seizing the servers, the UK authorities pulled the plug on the entire Bristol website - our modern printing presses - and took down a host of political journalism.
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As I said, this is simply being heavy handed and was unnecessary.
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