More problems for the ID card bill?

[Matt D]

(hopefully!)


Recap:

The original merged uber-thread on ID cards: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=11637

The thread started when the Bill was dropped before the end of the last Parliament (April) - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=26810

And the most recent ID cards thread: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=28822

(which got closed....so please can people not let this one end up like the last one. Keep it on topic, civil, & with no bickering or pointless tit-for-tat quote fests please.)



Anyway.


Few things....

• "Union blow to ID card scheme"
  
  

  Controversial government plans to introduce identity cards for every Briton were dealt a severe blow last night after the union representing the officials charged with implementing the scheme dramatically came out against it. (snip)

• "ID cards 'neither safe nor appropriate' "
  
  

  Ten potential pitfalls in the government's plans for national identity cards were highlighted today in a damning report just 24 hours ahead of a crucial Commons vote on the issue.
  
  Today's detailed investigation into the proposed scheme, by a panel of 14 professors at the London School of Economics, concludes that the current scheme is "neither safe nor appropriate", and will cost double, triple or even quadruple the government's estimates. (snip)

• "ID plan excessive, says watchdog"
  
  

  Plans to introduce an ID card scheme in the UK have been branded "excessive and disproportionate" by government watchdog Richard Thomas.
  
  The information commissioner said he feared the UK was in danger of becoming a "surveillance society".
  
  He said civil servants would be able to build a picture of how every UK adult led their life. (snip)

The bill is due to have its second reading in the Commons tomorrow....

[Nidge]

We need them in IMHO, it won't cost £300 it will cost around £30 and it will be the same as a passport.

[homealone]

the more I read about it, the more I am worried about the security aspects. Having all that information available in one place & human nature being what it is....

I havn't read the LSE report, in full, but the concept of Government IT projects coming in over budget is not a new one (have they joined the IR & DHSS databases, yet???), so the cost is a real factor, also.

But the biometrics is where this is going to fall down, imo, I don't believe it is sustainable to maintain that section of the database, for a start, but, also, who will be the first to achieve a 'clone' of a real person - coming soon, to a card reader, near you

[Ramrod]

Another problem (apart from the escalating cost and security worries) is the fact that the biometric data will need to be re-sampled every 10 years at least--possibly sooner. This would mean having to shell out for a new card at least every 10 yrs.
I think that they are a great idea but, in their present form, unworkable

[Paddy1]

Originally Posted by Nidge

We need them in IMHO, it won't cost £300 it will cost around £30 and it will be the same as a passport.

If it's the same as a passport why do we need it?

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Paddy1

If it's the same as a passport why do we need it?

because you are not forced to have a passport

[kronas]

ID cards are just a waste of money, database breaches are inevitable, card clones are inevitable, why spend the amount of money per person with also the implimentation of all the machinary involved for iris scans....

[Matth]

The main thing, is that they will cost a lot, and that more will be expected of them than they can deliver, while at the same time, they will deliver more than we are comfortable with.

The Data that is ON the card doesn't really matter - your money is not ON your credit card, but it can be used to access.... - same thing with any card that represents a personal data key.

The main point of attack, of course, may be in fraudulently obtaining ID - succeed in that, and you have an ID that will be trusted implicitly!


I will never be in favour of ID cards, as to be of the kind of use they seem to be thinking of, having and carrying one would have to be compulsory.

If it's not stopped, then we need protest action, like the poll tax.

[kronas]

i can see it now..... a man comes to the door pretending to be from a anti fraud office or the police and he or she wants to 'check your card' the person has ID ofcourse but infact its a fraudster who has your details with a reader, you go off not knowing anything, the next moment your contacted by your bank telling you your 'overdrawn' and how is the new loan....

the above can happen.

[nffc]

well i am not getting one. not that i have owt to hide but the fact it's inherently insecure and a violation of my civil liberties/human rights, or at least in my opinion. Plus I'm not directly paying for one- if they want it that badly they'll give me one...

Why do we need them when we have passports and driving licences that are perfectly acceptable. Surely making everyone have a passport is better.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by nffc

well i am not getting one. not that i have owt to hide but the fact it's inherently insecure and a violation of my civil liberties/human rights, or at least in my opinion. Plus I'm not directly paying for one- if they want it that badly they'll give me one...

Why do we need them when we have passports and driving licences that are perfectly acceptable. Surely making everyone have a passport is better.

the problem is if things go through and the bill is passed through as law then eventually it will be a legal requirement, im sure you would need it for many things as banks and other sorts of services which require proof of identity will proberbly require ID cards as compulsery ID.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by kronas

the problem is if things go through and the bill is passed through as law then eventually it will be a legal requirement, im sure you would need it for many things as banks and other sorts of services which require proof of identity will proberbly require ID cards as compulsery ID.

I know- how the hell can they enforce it though... "you must have an id card but you're gonna have to pay £300 for it" f**k*ng blair.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by nffc

I know- how the hell can they enforce it though... "you must have an id card but you're gonna have to pay £300 for it" f**k*ng blair.

you never know the police might do 'random stops' in areas just to see if your carrying one

[nffc]

Originally Posted by kronas

you never know the police might do 'random stops' in areas just to see if your carrying one

They have to have a valid reason... and I can't see how they'd be too bothered. after all they have to have twenty million radar traps in nottingham alone, speeding motorists generate cash after all

[punky]

They should probably can the whole idea now, although I doubt they will. ID cards wern't so bad in the beginning when the plans were a bit more sensible, but since then they have repeatedly watered it down - mainly to appease people - but with it, taking any real use out of them. I can see them ending up as glorified, but compulsary and extaunchinately expensive driving license clone.

I wouldn't get too excited about the people in Matt's post coming out slagging ID cards off. It is what they (critics mainly) are supposed to do, so its not really a whole lot suprising.