Sign this please, fuel prices

[Tuftus]

What the heck, you never know I guess...

I signed it with my spam mail account

[Russ B]

As I said with the last online petition put on here, and in the words of Baddiel and Skinner, it'll never work.

[allieyoung666]

What is the point??They do not listen to us.

[Tuftus]

Originally Posted by allieyoung666

What is the point??They do not listen to us.

Very true, but hope springs eternal...

[allieyoung666]

I do not even feel like voting as it has turned into a cat fight!

[Tuftus]

Originally Posted by allieyoung666

I do not even feel like voting as it has turned into a cat fight!

Know what u mean, it kinda like a choice of lesser evils.

And now for the "on the other hand" viewpoint (dons asbestos hat!)

Think about what your mobility means to you, for your standard of living and that of your family.

Think about what alternatives are available. Do you *really* need to drive your children to school? Can you share a car with someone else? Can you get buses or other forms of public transport?

You can get shopping delivered now, why bother driving into (or out of) town, having to pay to park, then drag it all back home again, burning petrol and causing pollution and congestion all the way?

Think about having no alternative to your car - forced to have a car and forced to pay through the nose to run it.

Nobody's talking about having *no alternative* to the car, in fact it's quite the opposite! Nobody's forced to own one.

Think what would happen if you lost your licence for exceeding any of the ever lower and ever more inappropriate speed limits.

Oops, spot that axe being ground! I wonder if the "fuel protest" people have any links to the "Safe Speed" (hah!) campaign?

Think about what you will have to cut back on in order to pay £5+ for a gallon of petrol.

Yes, you'd have to cut back on driving so much. But is that *really* going to be such a pain for most people? Sure some will have to drive for whatever reason, but there are alternatives.

Think about paying tolls to use the roads on your way to work or to enter the centre of your own town.

Once again, look at alternatives. Car pooling would cut congestion on the roads. If every other driving commuter pooled a car with a co-worker it could cut congestion by *half*!

And the centre of quite a few towns that I'm aware of have been pedestrianised anyway or are buses, cycles and taxis only and they're much better places for that.

Think about paying again to park your car when you get to work.

What exactly does that have to do with fuel prices...??? Oops, it seems to me to be just another axe being ground by a group that is using the issue of fuel to push a much wider agenda.

And for the final point...

Don't Get Caught! Drive Safely with Road Angel See the latest GPS Safety Equipment

Excuse me? How does exceeding the speed limit and not getting caught equate to "driving safely"??

Just another axe being ground.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Graham

Just another axe being ground.

and your post isn't ?

Seems to me you are just grinding your axe in the other direction.

[joker]

It's all a joke in my eyes, business and the government have had the means and the technology to power cars without any side effects for years!

They are simply robbing us blind. They will make us pay tax on fuel until they can no longer make a single penny out of it.

Humm I’m sure that will give them enough time to decide how to tax hydrogen!

Politics, they all crap in the same pot!

[purenuman]

Originally Posted by Paul M

and your post isn't ?

Seems to me you are just grinding your axe in the other direction.

His is a reply to an axe grind

Now if he had created a site or online petition you'd have a point....

Originally Posted by Graham

And now for the "on the other hand" viewpoint (dons asbestos hat!)

Think about what alternatives are available. Do you *really* need to drive your children to school? Can you share a car with someone else? Can you get buses or other forms of public transport?

Just my example, I know this is not the case for everybody.

I don't have kids so don't do the school run (but if I did I'd make them walk like I had to)

I work 13 miles from my house but there is no direct bus route. I would have to get 3 buses, 1 into my local town centre, then one from that town centre to the neighbouring town, then one from there to the stop nearest my work and then a walk of 500yds. It would turn what is presently a 30min car drive into a 2hr 15min journey. There are no train routes either.

My circumstances are not particularly extreme, I am sure there are many, many people for whom Public transport is not an option.

I know Public transport cannot cater for everyone, and it certainly doesn't cater for me.

Also why should you risk being on Public transport and be "happy slapped" as another thread is talking about, or be abused by a gang of teenage kids at the back of the bus etc.

When they introduce clean, safe, public transport then people might consider it. It's along way from that at the moment.

You can get shopping delivered now, why bother driving into (or out of) town, having to pay to park, then drag it all back home again, burning petrol and causing pollution and congestion all the way?

That's a good point, difficult to argue against

Nobody's talking about having *no alternative* to the car, in fact it's quite the opposite! Nobody's forced to own one.

I am, I have to have one to work.

Oops, spot that axe being ground! I wonder if the "fuel protest" people have any links to the "Safe Speed" (hah!) campaign?

Don't even go there

Yes, you'd have to cut back on driving so much. But is that *really* going to be such a pain for most people? Sure some will have to drive for whatever reason, but there are alternatives.

And for some there isn't. Should they be penalised because they are not catered for by the transport system?

Once again, look at alternatives. Car pooling would cut congestion on the roads. If every other driving commuter pooled a car with a co-worker it could cut congestion by *half*!

Car poolng is a good idea, but some people can't. And for some (me included) the drive into work is a personal thing where I am by myself without anyone annoying me.

And the centre of quite a few towns that I'm aware of have been pedestrianised anyway or are buses, cycles and taxis only and they're much better places for that.

Wont argue with that either. I always park in a car park on the edge of town and walk in.

What exactly does that have to do with fuel prices...??? Oops, it seems to me to be just another axe being ground by a group that is using the issue of fuel to push a much wider agenda.

The tax on fuel in this country is astronomical, and what percentage of that goes into your precious transport system - very little I can assure you.

Just what exactly have this government done in the past eight years to improve public transport?
What initiatives have they come up with to get us out of our cars?

I'd love to know

And for the final point...

Excuse me? How does exceeding the speed limit and not getting caught equate to "driving safely"??

Just another axe being ground.

Please Not again.......

Originally Posted by Paul M

and your post isn't ?

Seems to me you are just grinding your axe in the other direction.

Excuse me? Exactly *what* axe do I have to grind on this subject??

I'm just pointing out that there are at least two sides to this argument!

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Just my example, I know this is not the case for everybody.

I don't have kids so don't do the school run (but if I did I'd make them walk like I had to)

I work 13 miles from my house but there is no direct bus route. I would have to get 3 buses, 1 into my local town centre, then one from that town centre to the neighbouring town, then one from there to the stop nearest my work and then a walk of 500yds. It would turn what is presently a 30min car drive into a 2hr 15min journey. There are no train routes either.

My circumstances are not particularly extreme, I am sure there are many, many people for whom Public transport is not an option.

I know Public transport cannot cater for everyone, and it certainly doesn't cater for me.

Also why should you risk being on Public transport and be "happy slapped" as another thread is talking about, or be abused by a gang of teenage kids at the back of the bus etc.

When they introduce clean, safe, public transport then people might consider it. It's along way from that at the moment.

In fairness, a *lot* of people drive and don't need to. As an example, some of my neighbours drive their kids to school. That's not bad. What is surprising though is that the school is less than half a mile from our house, and it's actually quicker to walk than drive. A few of them use 4x4s for this (I personally think driving an 8 litre car half a mile to drop two kids off is a waste of resources).

Some people drive a lot further than they need to as well (I have one friend who always drives down the motorway to Lakeside or Bluewater to see a film despite the fact we have a much better cinema in Greenwich (UCI filmworks) and have better cinemas in Central London (which, while not easily accessable by car, are easily accessable by train)
Funnily enough, work wise, I am in a similar situation to you. I live fifeteen miles from work (door to door). I have one train and one Docklands Light Railway train to catch. I can travel around 15 miles by road, or (I think - I haven't worked it out) 20 miles by train. But, it actually takes considerably longer by road (over an hour as opposed to 40 minutes) because of Traffic.

However, I do accept that public transport is not right for everyone, but I don't think merely making public transport cheaper will persuade people to stop using their cars in significant numbers (in fact, in London, the GLC did significantly reduce bus fares in the early 80s, and traffic still went up). Not sure making it cleaner and safer will work either. We do need to persuade people to stop using their cars.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I work 13 miles from my house but there is no direct bus route. [...] My circumstances are not particularly extreme, I am sure there are many, many people for whom Public transport is not an option.

I know Public transport cannot cater for everyone, and it certainly doesn't cater for me.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But at least you have *thought* about the possible options. Most people IMO just go "oh it's too much bother" or "they're not convenient" or "they're crowded, dirty, smelly..." but a lot of the time they're just making excuses rather than actually bringing up reasonable objections.

When they introduce clean, safe, public transport then people might consider it. It's along way from that at the moment.

I agree entirely. The public transport system in this country is a mess and has suffered from massive under investment, ridiculous privatisation schemes and a general lack of care.

The government (whichever government) needs to do a lot more work on this instead of just making token efforts that go nowhere.

And for some there isn't. Should they be penalised because they are not catered for by the transport system?

No, but I've never said they should be, however the claims that site makes about petrol being £5 a gallon is IMO just scaremongering.

Car poolng is a good idea, but some people can't. And for some (me included) the drive into work is a personal thing where I am by myself without anyone annoying me.

If you can't car pool because there's nobody near you, fine, that's just the way it is.

If you *won't* car pool just because of sheer selfishness, that's another matter entirely.

The tax on fuel in this country is astronomical, and what percentage of that goes into your precious transport system - very little I can assure you.

I know and that is a disgrace.

Just what exactly have this government done in the past eight years to improve public transport?

Not enough.

What initiatives have they come up with to get us out of our cars?

I'd love to know

And so would I

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by Graham

Not enough.

They've introduced ridiculous privatisation schemes that allow companies to charge billions for repairs that would have cost hundreds of millions a few years ago (using the english idea of 1000 million is one billion).

Seriously, it looks like they have thrown an awful lot of money at the problem, but we have had precious little return on that investment. I do realise that because of the chronic underinvestment in our public transport infrastructure (pretty much since it started), it will take decades for major improvements to happen. Assuming they do - having dealt with contractors, they put the shareholders first, so will cut back on the staff on any projects.

And so would I

Err, we had an "Integrated Transport Policy" which seemed to, err, go nowhere and get quietly forgotten before anything changed.