Bowling for Columbine

Richard M · 03-07-2004, 02:34

I just watched the first 30 mins of this but had to turn it off.
It makes me feel sick, the US is such a screwed up country.

Despite not really wanting to watch all of this, I will tomorrow and then I'll watch F9/11 just to "educate" myself...

punky · 03-07-2004, 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard M

I just watched the first 30 mins of this but had to turn it off.
It makes me feel sick, the US is such a screwed up country.

Despite not really wanting to watch all of this, I will tomorrow and then I'll watch F9/11 just to "educate" myself...

You shouldn't believe anything Michael Moore says. It is up to you, but you should really check out the other side before you decide wether to believe him or not. Given how you started on BFC, this is a good one to start on:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

And here are 3 of the best ones:

www.moorewatch.com
www.moorelies.com
www.mooreexposed.com

I've just started reading a book about the lies MM trots out. It is a real eye opener to say the last. I've also explained my feelings about him much better here already.

Richard M · 03-07-2004, 09:29

But from what I've seen, BFC is not lying anywhere.
It's just MM interviewing people and seeing the things they say is a little crazy.

Damien · 03-07-2004, 09:40

He doesnt lie that much. I have seen clear lies already in those links punky showed us.

Halcyon · 03-07-2004, 10:14

Just becuase someone does not lie in the tape doesnt mean it cant be influenced.
A few editing here and there and cutting a few sentences out and you can mean a whole new thing all together.

I watched this a couple of months ago and what shocked me was that what I was seeing is footage of people actually being killed, shot at, and being put thruogh living hell.
I cant begin to think how these people must have felt, and I dont know why we have to see this. These poor people died and now its being thrown in everyones faces.
I think they should have some respect for those that died and just not show this real footage.

I agree with his stand on guns and all that and that he wants to get rid of them off the streets and control their usage.
I just find that it was a little too much in some areas of that film.
It certainly is shocking.

03-07-2004, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

You shouldn't believe anything Michael Moore says. It is up to you, but you should really check out the other side before you decide wether to believe him or not.

ITYM "you shouldn't believe it unquestioningly"

But there again...

Quote:

And here are 3 of the best ones:

www.moorewatch.com
www.moorelies.com

Two sites with a *blatant* Pro-Bush, Republican bias ("Let's make a Ronald Regan dollar coin", "Click here to thank Tony Blair (for his help in Iraq)" etc etc. Not exactly what I would call "impartial comment"

Quote:

www.mooreexposed.com

A page that criticises Moore for " In producing his Oscar-winner, Moore altered history, misled his viewers, and edited the footage and audio in such a way as to reverse the meaning. In one case, he took a speech of a person he desired to target; the problem was that the speech was in fact conciliatory and mild. So he spliced in footage from another speech, cut out paragraphs, and spliced the beginning of one sentence to the ending of another. "

And then goes on to say "[in] -Dude, Where's My Country, (page still under construction.) In this tome we learn "There is no terrorist threat," (p. 95) and Richard Nixon was the last liberal President, (p. 193). (Even more amusingly, in chapter 8 Moore pledges to contribute the limit to whichever Democrat has the best chance of winning (p. 162) and then in chapter 11 tells the reader that the Democrats are "professional losers," that "Democratic Party leaders have told me something they will not admit in public -- that they have basically written off 2004; that they see little chance of defeating George W. Bush" (p. 204) and that they might as well run Oprah Winfrey. (p. 206).)

Now *what* was that again about splicing together sentences and cutting out paragraphs?!

Please note that I'm not saying that Moore is necessarily *right*. But I don't think he's necessarily *wrong* either!!

03-07-2004, 11:37

It will be interesting to see what "lies" people claim there are in Farenheigh 9/11, as he has hired a team of independent fact checkers, and has a team of lawyers on stand-by should anyone attempt to defame him. If he is willing to fight his corner in court, that indicates to me a man who is pretty damn confident of his stance.

Regardless of anything else, in Bowling for Columbine he did get WalMart(?) to stop stocking ammunition, and I can`t see anyone defending the ramblings of Charlton Heston at the end of the film, he was quite offensively racist.

SOSAGES · 03-07-2004, 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

and I can`t see anyone defending the ramblings of Charlton Heston at the end of the film, he was quite offensively racist.

the Charlton Heston piece, where he says the 'from my Cold Dead hands' bit, is painfully edited. Moore shows people grieving for victims of Columbine, then explains that the NRA were going ahead with their conference near Columbine, followed by Heston saying 'I have 5 words for you..........', cuts to the crowd and back to Heston, who then says '....from my cold dead hands'. Pretty callous - until you look again. Charlton changed clothes mid-sentence! Whaddya mean, 2 different speeches, over a year apart?

Richard M · 03-07-2004, 12:17

I thought the bank who offered a free gun as an incentive to open a new account was pretty stupid.

03-07-2004, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOSAGES

the Charlton Heston piece, where he says the 'from my Cold Dead hands' bit, is painfully edited. Moore shows people grieving for victims of Columbine, then explains that the NRA were going ahead with their conference near Columbine, followed by Heston saying 'I have 5 words for you..........', cuts to the crowd and back to Heston, who then says '....from my cold dead hands'. Pretty callous - until you look again. Charlton changed clothes mid-sentence! Whaddya mean, 2 different speeches, over a year apart?

I`m specifically referring to the interview with Heston towards the end of the film. If he had made comments like that in the UK he's probably be up before a judge.

SOSAGES · 03-07-2004, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard M

I thought the bank who offered a free gun as an incentive to open a new account was pretty stupid.

the bank which gives you the gun. They only actually carry display models for each gun, and they don't give you the gun themselves. You have to wait a month for background checks to be carried out, and the gun is then ordered from the manufacturer. You can't just turn up, open an account and get the gun. But then that would be no use to Mike

No-one is disputing that the bank does give away guns - but the whole point is that Moore is saying that the gun problem is so bad in the States because - LOOK! I CAN WALK STRAIGHT INTO A BANK AND THEY WILL GIVE ME A GUN STRAIGHT AWAY!!!. We'll ignore the fact that you, um, can't. He's highlighting how easy it is to get guns, but doesn't choose the best example. I think that is a lie personallly

As for the Heston editing, paraphrasing a speech is one thing, but to purposefully pick and choose bits from different speeches, made months apart is nasty, deceitful and wrong.

Richard M · 03-07-2004, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOSAGES

the bank which gives you the gun. They only actually carry display models for each gun, and they don't give you the gun themselves. You have to wait a month for background checks to be carried out, and the gun is then ordered from the manufacturer. You can't just turn up, open an account and get the gun. But then that would be no use to Mike

Sorry but you're wrong - they had a vault where they kept the guns.
They did do a background check but he walked out with a real gun.

**Jefferson T** · 03-07-2004, 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard M

Sorry but you're wrong - they had a vault where they kept the guns.
They did do a background check but he walked out with a real gun.

What do you have to do to qualify for a gun in the us?

Earl of Bronze · 03-07-2004, 12:43

While Michael Moore is an unabashed liberal (and I'm anything but), I have read Stupid White Men and am half way through Dude Where's my Country. I'll try to get a hold of a copy of BFC next week, and intend to see Farnheight 9/11 in the cinema. If Micheal Moore is such a liar, why havent the American authoraties slapped him with so many law suits that he's burried under a tonne of lawyers. Dont get me wrong, I'm a cynic, and dont beleive everything I read, but too many of the things he say's are prooveable. Plus he give's directions to where he finds his background material. So if he is such a liar, he is giving the people he protests against plenty of ammo to shoot him down. If even 25% of what he says is true, then we should all be afraid of the boarderline Retard running the show in America. Who is surrounded by christian zelots who beleive its America's manafest destiny to impost 'The American Way of Life' on the rest of the world. And god help anyone who stand's on the was of cheap oil and globalisation.

My friend's father-in-law was in Belfast for a holiday a couple of weeks ago, his first trip outside the US since he was in Vietnam as a US Army Ranger engaged in Operation Pheonix. Peggy's father was kind enough to renew my open invatation to visit then at any time. But I told him that in good consience I would have to decline. I feel it impinges on my human rights, to be treated as a criminal the moment I step of the plane, just because I wish to visit a foreign country. Namely, I REFUSE TO BE FINGERPRINTED FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN BECAUSE I AM NOT AMERICAN.

SOSAGES · 03-07-2004, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard M

Sorry but you're wrong - they had a vault where they kept the guns.
They did do a background check but he walked out with a real gun.

i can only assume it was edited like that - the Brady Bill make it so that there is a waiting period before you can purchase a gun signed by bill c

moore spends a lot of time walking into big corps hq and demanding to speak to the head honcho and film them with an upset ex employe when one of moores ex workes did that he had a restraining order put on him - he also send his kids to private school and lives in a very nice place now i dont know his right to have money but id like it if he didnt spend all his time talking about poor people as well

anyway love him hate him he certainly is interesting