Apple report record profits

[ZrByte]

Originally Posted by Chris

Apple has long accused Google of basically ripping off iOS in developing Android.

Whether or not that's the case, iOS was out first and was there to be borrowed for inspiration.

True but IOS appears to have borrowed many elements from Symbian and headed in a similar yet different direction, just like Android did with IOS.
Interesting really because from what I have read Nokia probably has the most to be suing about but seems to be the least inclined to do so. To me that either means they are hiding some pretty massive skeletons in their own closet or it says something for the good nature of the Finnish.

[Cobbydaler]

Interesting article here as to what helps fuel the massive profits...

Link

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

Interesting article here as to what helps fuel the massive profits...

Link

While I don't condone Apple's actions, it's worth pointing out that most major manufacturers (in any industry) do the same.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Stuart

While I don't condone Apple's actions, it's worth pointing out that most major manufacturers (in any industry) do the same.

Still not right..Apple makes so much profit they could easily increase wages and still make a profit..

The more I see of companies using China in this way because there are no unions to demand higher wages the more angry I become..We really have become a morally corrupt society if we continue to buy and use these products that come out of China.

[Cobbydaler]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Still not right..Apple makes so much profit they could easily increase wages and still make a profit..

The more I see of companies using China in this way because there are no unions to demand higher wages the more angry I become..We really have become a morally corrupt society if we continue to buy and use these products that come out of China.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't just sit on a lot of the profit.

Are they just saving it up to launch more litigation or to cover themselves if they lose a case badly & get counter-sued?

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Still not right..Apple makes so much profit they could easily increase wages and still make a profit..

Indeed, Apple's profit margins are quite a bit higher than the industry averages.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't just sit on a lot of the profit.

Are they just saving it up to launch more litigation or to cover themselves if they lose a case badly & get counter-sued?

Apple have said they won't just sit on it but they have previously used some of their cash pile to dominate the logistics of their operation. They sell an absurd amount of iPhones and iPads and often require a near monopoly on the components for a new release, i.e there were shortages of screens as the largest producers were selling directly to Apple. Even space on cargo planes from Asia are at a premium prior to an Apple release.

Anyway it's not as simple as paying their workers more. They are not their workers. They work for Foxconn which, by China's standards, isn't a bad place to work. Apple contract out the work to them. They could go somewhere else and demand workers are paid more but then they would need to do the same for components for their products. For example they would need to make sure that their iPad screens are made by a company who has the same standards. Where do Apple get their screens? Samsung. Where do Samsung by in large get those screens made? Foxconn.

Apple would end up at quite the disadvantage if they didn't use these workers in their supply chain, not just economically but in their ability to produce the products in the numbers required. They would need to develop a entirely new supply chain to build their own chips, screens, hard drives, batteries, cases and so on. The cost would be astronomical.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Damien

Apple have said they won't just sit on it but they have previously used some of their cash pile to dominate the logistics of their operation. They sell an absurd amount of iPhones and iPads and often require a near monopoly on the components for a new release, i.e there were shortages of screens as the largest producers were selling directly to Apple. Even space on cargo planes from Asia are at a premium prior to an Apple release.

Anyway it's not as simple as paying their workers more. They are not their workers. They work for Foxconn which, by China's standards, isn't a bad place to work. Apple contract out the work to them. They could go somewhere else and demand workers are paid more but then they would need to do the same for components for their products. For example they would need to make sure that their iPad screens are made by a company who has the same standards. Where do Apple get their screens? Samsung. Where do Samsung by in large get those screens made? Foxconn.

Apple would end up at quite the disadvantage if they didn't use these workers in their supply chain, not just economically but in their ability to produce the products in the numbers required. They would need to develop a entirely new supply chain to build their own chips, screens, hard drives, batteries, cases and so on. The cost would be astronomical.

I am surprised by your reaction..the answer that they have picked out the best company in a country that regularly allows the abuse of human rights is no defence at all.Also the defence that others do it as well is no defence at all because I hold those other companies as accountable as well.
I heard all the same objections about boycotting South African products during apartheid plus the one that if we didn't buy their products the workers would suffer..The very ones who were subject to apartheid.
All the same excuses have been used by the retail industry also and by Nike over sweatshops in Asia and Thailand.

Apple could do all of that which you suggested and still make a profit and everyone would still buy the product.In fact more of us would buy them.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I am surprised by your reaction..the answer that they have picked out the best company in a country that regularly allows the abuse of human rights is no defence at all.Also the defence that others do it as well is no defence at all because I hold those other companies as accountable as well.

I am just stating the way things are. 'Accountability' is meaningless if it doesn't have an impact on anything. Also the fact that other companies do it is not a defence but a reason, an argument that they would be at a competitive disadvantage if they didn't take advantage of the resources being used by their rivals.

Apple could do all of that which you suggested and still make a profit and everyone would still buy the product.In fact more of us would buy them.

Well I am not sure about that, we don't know the exact details of their operating. However for Apple to make every item in their supply chain or only source those items from vendors operating outside of countries like China would be insane. It's just not practical. Too many of the basic components are manufactured there.

[Maggy J]

Originally Posted by Damien

I am just stating the way things are. 'Accountability' is meaningless if it doesn't have an impact on anything. Also the fact that other companies do it is not a defence but a reason, an argument that they would be at a competitive disadvantage if they didn't take advantage of the resources being used by their rivals.



Well I am not sure about that, we don't know the exact details of their operating. However for Apple to make every item in their supply chain or only source those items from vendors operating outside of countries like China would be insane. It's just not practical. Too many of the basic components are manufactured there.

Then they need to pay a fair wage do they not?They could insist.Others have.As for there only being one source of certain items!! Whose fault is that?How many companies have transferred whole production lines elsewhere from the UK/US due to lower costs due entirely to no unionised companies with no H&S and are virtually sweatshops with many under-aged workers?Leaving whole production line workers on redundancy packages in this country.

I'm sorry Damien,but saying I only did what everyone else did isn't any sort of defence in the long run. Either something is ethically,morally right or it is not.

[Damien]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'm sorry Damien,but saying I only did what everyone else did isn't any sort of defence in the long run. Either something is ethically,morally right or it is not.

I don't care if it is a defence or not. That's not what I am discussing. This is the way the world currently is. Many of the components used in the machine I am using to the type this, the machine your using to read this, the server on which it is stored and hardware it visits in between are made in Asia - probably China.

This is the result of successive government policies in all the relevant countries. A decreased efficiently in Western manufacturing and more laws protecting workers which helps countries like China use manufacturing for growth. Companies which have to compete against each other taking every possible advantage to drive their costs down and keep their prices competitive. Meanwhile there is an upside to the west as software, design and other service sectors have grown and developing countries are finding it hard to compete there.

China are happy to allow Foxconn to operate, workers queue to get jobs there, companies are happy to use them while their customers are happy to use their products. Ultimately China will manage this stage of their development and eventually they may go the same way as us.

It's all very complicated and influenced by multiple factors outside the control of any one government, company, or consumer. Apple don't need a defence, they are operating in the same world as everyone else.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

Interesting article here as to what helps fuel the massive profits...

Link

Along with their well designed products and their publicity machine

---------- Post added at 10:42 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Apple have said they won't just sit on it but they have previously used some of their cash pile to dominate the logistics of their operation. They sell an absurd amount of iPhones and iPads and often require a near monopoly on the components for a new release, i.e there were shortages of screens as the largest producers were selling directly to Apple. Even space on cargo planes from Asia are at a premium prior to an Apple release.

Anyway it's not as simple as paying their workers more. They are not their workers. They work for Foxconn which, by China's standards, isn't a bad place to work. Apple contract out the work to them. They could go somewhere else and demand workers are paid more but then they would need to do the same for components for their products. For example they would need to make sure that their iPad screens are made by a company who has the same standards. Where do Apple get their screens? Samsung. Where do Samsung by in large get those screens made? Foxconn.

Apple would end up at quite the disadvantage if they didn't use these workers in their supply chain, not just economically but in their ability to produce the products in the numbers required. They would need to develop a entirely new supply chain to build their own chips, screens, hard drives, batteries, cases and so on. The cost would be astronomical.

Remember Steve Jobs himself was relctant to outsorce production, onther reason they have production ther is becuase of the supply of managers there as well and I don't think Samsung wants to be given orders from their biggest rival

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't care if it is a defence or not. That's not what I am discussing. This is the way the world currently is. Many of the components used in the machine I am using to the type this, the machine your using to read this, the server on which it is stored and hardware it visits in between are made in Asia - probably China.

This is the result of successive government policies in all the relevant countries. A decreased efficiently in Western manufacturing and more laws protecting workers which helps countries like China use manufacturing for growth. Companies which have to compete against each other taking every possible advantage to drive their costs down and keep their prices competitive. Meanwhile there is an upside to the west as software, design and other service sectors have grown and developing countries are finding it hard to compete there.

China are happy to allow Foxconn to operate, workers queue to get jobs there, companies are happy to use them while their customers are happy to use their products. Ultimately China will manage this stage of their development and eventually they may go the same way as us.

It's all very complicated and influenced by multiple factors outside the control of any one government, company, or consumer. Apple don't need a defence, they are operating in the same world as everyone else.

Yet, people in the West rightly demand that the workers that produce these products are paid a living wage, and companies can't shut their eyes to that. Whether it's consumer electronics, clothing, hand knotted carpets or footballs, we have a right to demand that the workers producing them are not exploited. Decent conditions for workers in developing countries may increase the prices we need to pay for these products slightly, but it's not going to make a massive difference.

[gazzae]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Along with their well designed products and their publicity machine

---------- Post added at 10:42 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------



Remember Steve Jobs himself was relctant to outsorce production, onther reason they have production ther is becuase of the supply of managers there as well and I don't think Samsung wants to be given orders from their biggest rival

Er what?

They have production in the Far East due to the supply of managers?
And Samsung used to be a major supplier to Apple - maybe still are.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by danielf

Yet, people in the West rightly demand that the workers that produce these products are paid a living wage, and companies can't shut their eyes to that. Whether it's consumer electronics, clothing, hand knotted carpets or footballs, we have a right to demand that the workers producing them are not exploited. Decent conditions for workers in developing countries may increase the prices we need to pay for these products slightly, but it's not going to make a massive difference.

We need global labour standards and workers rights