Newbie needs xbox live upgrade help....

[Aff]

hi there,

i need a little help because ntl aren't the best at explaining the situation. sorry if i'm in the wrong place, wasn't sure where to place it.

my pc is upstairs at my home. my xbox is downstairs and i have a laptop.

ntl run a console package which allows you to use pc and xbox at the same time but they insist i will need the connection in my front room and not upstairs. ok, fair enough.

but they want to charge me 50 pounds to move it, 30 pounds for their ntl starter pack, 5 pounds extra on top of the 600mb connection monthly fee which i think is 25 pounds. oh, and an xbox live kit from microsoft at 50 pounds.

can anyone suggest if i would be better off keeping the connection upstairs and putting the money towards a wireless set up??

and what would i need if so, laptop and xbox connected? would i then still need their console/pc package???

and what is the ntl starter kit?? i am already on 150k connection and just want to upgrade the bandwith.

sorry if this appears obvious but i really am a little out of my depth here and need some advice in tackling ntl. they seem out to get me!!!!

[Chris]

Originally posted by Aff
sorry if this appears obvious but i really am a little out of my depth here and need some advice in tackling ntl. they seem out to get me!!!!

You dam right they're out to get you. You don't even need their rip-off £5-a-month 'subscription'.

Funny how they'll let you connect up to 3 PCs in a home network to your cable modem, but as soon as one of those PCs turns out to be a games console they tell you you need an extra IP address and want an extra fiver off you.

Take Andre's advice, get a wireless router and run your main PC, your laptop and your XBox wherever you like in your house. Don't pay ntl a penny. I'm not at all convinced that the terms they have put in their AUP to demand this are legal and enforceable as the destinction between a home PC and an Xbox is really only skin-deep. An XBox is merely a highly customised PC IMO.

The best bit is, it is not (currently) possible for them to tell what's on the other side of a wireless router, so if you run an XBox on it they will never know.

[Aff]

thanks guys, i'm determined to get on xboxlive in the most flexible fashion. i was not impressed by the service today and left me feeling a bit miffed.

my problem is i'm not too pc savvy, probably why i like console gaming. however, can you clarify whether with the wireless setup i can actually surf the net (the g/f of course) and play xboxlive at the same time?

because this is what ntl are proposing with the extra £5. hmm...

if i can, i need some proposals for equipment. i think linksys seems to be quite favourable. i need to know exactly what i need.

will i need extra equipment for upgrading from 150 to 600 bb too. i have my cable modem, is this enough?

thanks for the help, it's very appreciated. rest assured when i'm on i'll be in contact...

btw, i feel like a know-nothing punter in a dixons shop when talking to ntl. you just know they're gonna get you....

[Caspar]

Originally posted by Andre
Hi and welcome to the site.

The ntl 'starter kit' they refer to consists of a hub, ethernet cables, and a 2nd I.P address for your XBOX (not necessary)

ntl insist that you pay this charge as they it is in their AUP, but you don't have to.

I would suggest that the answer to your issue is to just get a wireless router, but it depends what budget you have in mind to spend.

There are other options, but let's take it one step at a time!

Isn't it great the things you can say...when you're not constrained or limited by NTL lawyers!!!


...oh and my contribution to this thread...

The 3 step guide to XBOX Wireless gaming!

1. Wireless router. The one that seems to be the most recommended is the Linksys BEFW11S4.

2. Next you will need a 'wireless bridge' to connect into the XBOX, again Linksys seem to be the best with their Linksys Wet11.

3. For the last easy step you will need a standard wireless network card and Linksys seem to be the best with their Linksys WMP11


You can buy these from:

Inmac
Amazon
Dabs

...amongst other places


hmm, maybe this Wireless XBOX information will be useful to other forum users *cough* Andre? *cough*

Caspar

[Rob]

Originally posted by towny
The best bit is, it is not (currently) possible for them to tell what's on the other side of a wireless router, so if you run an XBox on it they will never know.

Can ntl "see" an XBox if it's connected into a standard Broadband router?

Originally posted by towny
I'm not at all convinced that the terms they have put in their AUP to demand this are legal and enforceable as the destinction between a home PC and an Xbox is really only skin-deep. An XBox is merely a highly customised PC IMO.

I wouldnt be quite so certain. At the end of the day, ntl have made a distinction by specifically listing the XBox separate from PCs. ntl's T&Cs and AUP are notoriously contradictory. It may be difficult to enforce properly, but only a court could make udgement on that, and it'll cost the average punter too much to argue the point.

[Caspar]

Originally posted by MovedGoalPosts
Can ntl "see" an XBox if it's connected into a standard Broadband router?



I wouldnt be quite so certain. At the end of the day, ntl have made a distinction by specifically listing the XBox separate from PCs. ntl's T&Cs and AUP are notoriously contradictory. It may be difficult to enforce properly, but only a court could make udgement on that, and it'll cost the average punter too much to argue the point.

XBOXs do use a specific port 1403 (from memory) which I'm sure can't be too to determine if a user is using (Shhh don't tell NTL...they are too stupid to work out this complicated procedure on their own )

[Chris]

Originally posted by MovedGoalPosts
it'll cost the average punter too much to argue the point.

It'd cost ntl a helluva lot more and if they have the merest sniff of defeat they won't take you on for fear of setting a precedent. Imagine how many fivers they'd lose...

As regards standard routers, no, it's not currently possible to see beyond any router at the moment, wireless or otherwise, although some university research done in the US is becoming more effective at 'guessing' what's on a network behind a router. They do this by analysing the way packets they send into your network have been handled once they come out again. Differerent hardware/software setups leave unique 'fingerprints', they have found. In time, this kind of snooping technology would allow ntl to get a fairly good idea what you have hooked up (and how many of them) but it's a wee while off yet. And might well be legally dubious, like their AUP.

[Aff]

cheers all,

just to clarify,

if i go wireless with a router will i need the ntl 'starter' kit? (ie pay £30). just checking finances.

and if i don't need the kit will i be able to use xbox and internet at the same time?

ps. is anyone paying this extra £5 then if they have a router???

[Caspar]

Originally posted by Aff
cheers all,

just to clarify,

if i go wireless with a router will i need the ntl 'starter' kit? (ie pay £30). just checking finances.

and if i don't need the kit will i be able to use xbox and internet at the same time?

ps. is anyone paying this extra £5 then if they have a router???

You simply don't need theit start pack, NTL being arses again...trying to con unsuspecting newbies

Once you have your router setup as described in this thread...you can play on XBOX LIVE and surf on your PC at the same, (this mayb come with some 'danger to health precautions', like mobile phone usage whilst driving )

Anyway...you get the jist...dont buy NTL's starter pack...DO buy a wireless router, bridge, wireless PC network card.

Plug in and go

p.s. you maybe need to 'clone your MAC' address into your router...it's not hard so dont freak!....we'll post some info on how to do it in a bit


EDIT: 4 Steps to MAC Address Cloning bliss!

1. In windows click on START -> RUN and type 'cmd'.

2. A DOS window appears, type 'winipcfg'.

3. Write down the wireless network card MAC address.

4. On the XBOX dashboard, choose XBOX live and choose the configure option. Choose MAC address and type in the address you wrote down (minus the -).

Any problems post back here

[Rob]

Originally posted by towny
As regards standard routers, no, it's not currently possible to see beyond any router at the moment, wireless or otherwise, although some university research done in the US is becoming more effective at 'guessing' what's on a network behind a router. They do this by analysing the way packets they send into your network have been handled once they come out again. Differerent hardware/software setups leave unique 'fingerprints', they have found. In time, this kind of snooping technology would allow ntl to get a fairly good idea what you have hooked up (and how many of them) but it's a wee while off yet. And might well be legally dubious, like their AUP.

I think the following shows that ntl would not be in their rights to come after you if they tried that sort of system:

Taken from ntl's current Terms & Conditions - Section C Interactive Services
3.3 We have no control over the information or software transmitted via the Internet Services and we do not examine how our customers are using the Internet Services or the nature of the information or software they are sending or receiving. <snip>

I suppose the biggest risk is that something goes belly up with your cable modem / set top box so ntl send round an engineer who just "notices" what you have got wired up and reports you.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Andre
Easy answer to that-remove the router before he comes round!

Or just remove the xbox, as the router itself is not contraband

[Aff]

thanks guys, i'm off to purchase then. that's a total saving of £80 i've made plus £60 in fivers over the year.

that'll pay for my kit!!!!