VM's Technical Advantage ...

[Skie]

I'm sorta surprised that VM never made the change to IPTV when they were rolling out the on-demand stuff, they certainly made noises about it years ago. Move to IPTV across your entire platform and then you aren't forced to keep the current CATV systems architecture and you can change it as quickly or slowly as you like without it really affecting your customers.

DOCSIS is a clever system, but it has plenty of drawbacks. It is, after all, a workaround for a system that was never originally intended to be used in this way. 4 may help, but its going to be a long time coming.

[qasdfdsaq]

Multicasting IPTV is still in its infancy, making broadcast CATV a hell of a lot more efficient.

[boroboi]

Originally Posted by The Installer

Correct all amps require power, however the architecture varies from cable area to area depending on the build. Some areas will have an amp in each cab, others with slots within the footpath clearly won't.

Basically all VM need to do is simply re-segment their nodes, so they pass less houses (reduce the size of the daisy chain). At present some node areas pass hundreds of houses, reduce the number of houses passed and you reduce the potential for the current over utilization problems. There is no need to move CMTS equipment to street cabs. The bottle neck in the VM system is the daisy chain/node size, not the fibre back to the headend.

It's all money...

Re-Segmenting needs planning permission, and it costs them to dig up paths and repair them afterwards, doing that country wide i doubt they would do, the same as turning their cabs into a CMTS network wide.

Virgin are on a very slow death spiral, neither is financially viable for them i expect. Virgin will reach the limit of their network at some point and other technologies will just simply be better.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Eeeps

... over VDSL FTTC.

The way I see it the only significant advantage VM have now is the fact that they have a fat pipe into every subscribers home. They also have existing street side cabinets where that pipe terminates.

If only they (any cable operator) could move the CMTS equipment to that cabinet and have the fibre interface there.
Have any cable operators considered this? Does VLSI 'micro' CMTS equipment even exist yet that could replace the broadband amplifier in the cab?

I guess a 32 channel CMTS in each cab would provide a good degree of 'future proof' bandwidth for the customers on that cab.

What's more there would be no need to change the subscriber equipment; the existing SH would be capable of 400Mb/s down and 70Mb/s up.

Would probably even give FTTP a run - just on commercial grounds.

Ian

Dont forget tho docsis3 potentially can do much more than VM are doing now. So even if they could do your idea, they probably wouldnt for the same reason they dont do more now with docsis3 and that is money.

[Martyn]

thats why virgin feels slugish..

[MaverickJesus]

I suppose it boils down to which is quicker, the rate of technological progression by its competitors or the rate at which it can draw down its debt - the debt will go down quicker the more of it they pay off, but I still don't think they really have time, especially if FTTP starts to pick up in a year or two.

[rickymallory]

It is very evident that VM has to do more in order to survive, maybe not currently, the speed doubling should give them more thrust for a time but it will not last them long. I think they have to consider the truth and that is, if they don't move on and adapt they will end up no longer existing because their competitors are now fast leaving them behind.

[Eeeps]

Originally Posted by MaverickJesus

I suppose it boils down to which is quicker, the rate of technological progression by its competitors or the rate at which it can draw down its debt - the debt will go down quicker the more of it they pay off, but I still don't think they really have time, especially if FTTP starts to pick up in a year or two.

I don't believe FTTP will have any widespread adoption for quite a few years yet. Getting fibre to each home is going to be a very big financial hill to climb.

In my opinion, if VM do have a long term strategy it has to be based on the fact that they already have massive bandwidth to homes already. They just need to work out how to use it.

My view is that re-segmenting cables to reduce the contention ratio only to have to split them again in 6 months because of an increase in customer number can't be cost effective in the long term.

[kwikbreaks]

Originally Posted by Eeeps

My view is that re-segmenting cables to reduce the contention ratio only to have to split them again in 6 months because of an increase in customer number can't be cost effective in the long term.

Consider...
You need to insure your car.
It will cost £600 for the year or £60 a month.
You have £60 available to you right now and are right at the end of your credit card limit.

What do you do?

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by The Installer

Basically all VM need to do is simply re-segment their nodes, so they pass less houses (reduce the size of the daisy chain). At present some node areas pass hundreds of houses, reduce the number of houses passed and you reduce the potential for the current over utilization problems.

This is being done in my area in August.

[The Installer]

Originally Posted by boroboi

It's all money....

Everything comes down to money no matter what it is!

Originally Posted by boroboi

Re-Segmenting needs planning permission, and it costs them to dig up paths and repair them afterwards, doing that country wide i doubt they would do, the same as turning their cabs into a CMTS network wide.

Really, i didn't know they needed to dig up the roads to reseg their existing network...

I never said they would put the CMTS in their cabs, and i doubt they ever will.

Originally Posted by boroboi

Virgin are on a very slow death spiral, neither is financially viable for them i expect. Virgin will reach the limit of their network at some point and other technologies will just simply be better.

Really, that crystal ball of yours should also be good at predicting this weeks magic 6 lottery numbers, any tips?

Technology is changing all the time, once one reaches the end of it useful life another better technology will take it's place

---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Eeeps

Thanks for that insight. Does that mean the cabs without amp are effectively satellites for cab with (i.e. fed from those) or just passive splitters off the main coax chain?


Effectively placing the CMTS in the cab gives the end game in segmentation.

The question does arise as to whether or not DOCSIS makes best utilisation of the fibre.

They are passives, plenty here. http://www.tuolima.com/catv-series/c...p-outdoor.html

Around here where i am, we have two types of network build. The first, built in 1990/1 has street cabs each with it's own amp in it. All customer drop cables terminate here. The maximum cable pull is about 400 meters.

The second built later in about 1996, has slots or chambers in the footpath every ten houses or so, maximum cable pulls tend to be about 50 meters or so for this type of build.

With this second build, you still have your optical node, from here much the same as the first type of build, you have amplifiers on the main trunk coax to boost the RF signal. Here though quite clearly you can't have a mains powered bit of kit below street level due to water. The main coax just simply goes through all the pits in the footpath, each with it's own tap bank and shown on the link until the signal requires a boost again and then it pops up into and amp in a little cab above ground and then carries on.

Those are your basics, but both types of build have the same daisy chain structure. Hope that makes sense

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

This is being done in my area in August.

This will be done in most areas before the double speeds are rolled out. This type of work also happens as and when required too, but clearly before doubling everyones speed they will need to add/reseg most areas, unless an area has very very low usage, which is quite possible of course.

[jb66]

Originally Posted by The Installer

Correct all amps require power, however the architecture varies from cable area to area depending on the build. Some areas will have an amp in each cab, others with slots within the footpath clearly won't.

Basically all VM need to do is simply re-segment their nodes, so they pass less houses (reduce the size of the daisy chain). At present some node areas pass hundreds of houses, reduce the number of houses passed and you reduce the potential for the current over utilization problems. There is no need to move CMTS equipment to street cabs. The bottle neck in the VM system is the daisy chain/node size, not the fibre back to the headend.

Where I work the slots have amps under ground, ants love them

[The Installer]

Originally Posted by jb66

Where I work the slots have amps under ground, ants love them

Oh fair enough, i didn't think they'd have amps underground

As for the ants... humm yeah great in the summer when you open a pit, to discover the whole pit is an ant's nest (oh the joy's)

[Eeeps]

Originally Posted by kwikbreaks

Consider...
You need to insure your car.
It will cost £600 for the year or £60 a month.
You have £60 available to you right now and are right at the end of your credit card limit.

What do you do?

Ask for my credit limit to be increased or get another card as long as the card's APR is less than 20%.

I take your point and indeed for VM to attract more investment they need to have a viable long term plan. In my view the only way for VM to have this plan is to look at ways to exploit or develop their technical advantage.

Of course it could be the long term plan is to exit the BB market.

[one2escape]

Its all starting to look gloomly for VM now. BT seem to have upped there game and with Sky also getting fibre now VM need to pull out something. Im seriously thinking for jumping ship.