BT Infinity VS VM Cable

[oliver1948uk]

I have had NTL/VM phone for 10+ years. Absolutely no problems whatsoever.

These days, I only use it for incoming calls (and calling VM for nothing). Have a Tesco internet phone connected to router (so PC can be off). Various packages available including mobile and international. I pay £2.97 a month for unlimited national calls (01 02 03) and only 2p per minute to family in Australia.

Tesco internet phone is expensive to set up but well worth it.

[Ignitionnet]

TLDR: Virgin ignored the network, rolled out 50M as a cheap rush job and it's coming back to haunt them as they realise how much needs to be done to catch up to BT on upload.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Come on then tell us why and how much you know about VM's network that allows you to make that statement.

I will give you a clue as to what you need to tell us, To be able to make that statement you will have to tell us where the capacity issues are. What equipment they will need to install in the headends and hubsites, How about core issues with the additional strain on that due to all the torrents running 24/7. Will all the modems be capable of increased upload. What about additional costs of traffic on the external routes. Man power to install the additional cpe and to test it.

So go on tell us ?

*Puts hand up*

you will have to tell us where the capacity issues are

Local level, VM are presently splitting 4 x 9Mbps upstreams between 200Mbps of downstream on the DOCSIS 3 network.

What equipment they will need to install in the headends and hubsites

None, BSRs, 10k's and 7246VXRs with MC28 cards are all DOCSIS 2 / ATDMA upstream capable. Some work which is vaguely related but more business as usual has been done in headends already.

How about core issues with the additional strain on that due to all the torrents running 24/7.

Won't be any, even with the additional upstream loading the network will still be asymmetrically biased downstream.

Will all the modems be capable of increased upload.

Doesn't matter - DOCSIS 2 is backwards compatible just at reduced bit rate. Any modem from the ntl 200 onwards along with the Moto Surfboard 5100 and the SA Webstar 2100 is capable anyways.

What about additional costs of traffic on the external routes.

Won't be any, network will remain downstream asymmetrical and VM are charged based on the highest utilised direction, 95th percentile.

Man power to install the additional cpe and to test it.

No additional CPE required. Code upgrade has already been deployed to the non-DOCSIS 2 compatible STBs to resolve a bug in them relating to crashes when locking to DOCSIS 2 channels.

The work is on the access network, VM never bothered to do any upgrade work on it when they rolled out DOCSIS 3 they only did a noise sweep which is why there's only space for one upstream channel in some areas and that had to be nicked from the legacy network.

Some areas will need a ton of work. Possible full amplifier replacements, if they're lucky just diplex replacements, probably some optical upgrades as the return path lasers couldn't handle the higher power of ATDMA signals, etc.

So for those, especially in ex-Telewest areas as they were by a mile the slackest and worst for access upgrades with ntl looking like the epitomy of diligence next to their bodges and sticky tape solutions, look out for VM engineers doing lots of work on cabinets and potentially cards coming through the door informing of service disrupting work. In some cases it really will take that much.

This can't be done fast, but it should be being done right now. Instead there seems to be some sitting on hands and the budget has already been reduced. Presumably seeing how little they can spend on the network without harming business. Bad idea.

[-Xt)2eM3-]

Good points (Regarding the last few posts) ... just a little off topic from what you guys are discussing...

Can anyone in plain English translate BT's traffic management policy?
E.g. Don't excessively use the connection between 9am - 9pm etc? (Like VM)

Because, as it stands it just says to me "pay £25 for a high speed internet connection, but you can't download a lot of 'stuff' (which is one of the reasons you opted to pay for an unlimited fast connection) during any time period otherwise for 30days we will constantly cap you.

[Ignitionnet]

Some people want to download things quickly, watch streaming media, catch up on TV, etc, but pay for their movies and games so don't need more than 100GB. They're the ones who will pay for it and be happy.

[-Xt)2eM3-]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Some people want to download things quickly, watch streaming media, catch up on TV, etc, but pay for their movies and games so don't need more than 100GB. They're the ones who will pay for it and be happy.

When I say 'stuff' I mean updates, Linux distros, games via Steam etc.

I do pay for things. But BT don't have a fair 'fair usage policy'.

Shouldn't they specify time frames? Otherwise how would one know when to download and not to download? Surely it would make it easier for both parties if they knew where they stand (like VM).

I hate that VM have a traffic policy (not 50MB) but at least they are fair and say you can't do this at this time which I respect.

BT on the other hand are thieves. At this rate no one will switch to them.

[Ignitionnet]

Their 5 million customers say otherwise.

[Peter_]

I thought this link was quite apt about the rivalry between Virginmedia and BT Infinity.

[Ignitionnet]

I have to say that doesn't come across as funny it just comes across as pathetic, tacky and immature.

Most people who think that's amusing will be Sun readers who can't afford 50M and/or want it to leech crap from newsgroups to sell at the car boot anyway.

Seriously, grow up and get your own house in order rather than wasting money painting models' arses, the biggest arse in that picture is the VM PR crew who thought this would be funny.

[Peter_]

Maybe not funny considering that its the Scum really and overly tacky to say the least.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Moldova

Maybe not funny considering that its the Scum really and overly tacky to say the least.

Name change to Chav Media coming soon.

Wouldn't be so bad apart from that VM are doing sweet FA to catch up with BT on the upstream side of things apart from trialling in a couple of small areas, as announced nearly 6 months ago.

[m419]

BT infinity vs Virgin Media?

Hmmmm thats an easy one, Virgin Media of course!

BT Infinity, covers no where, Virgin 50MB covers a wider area just now.

BT will set usage limits,download restrictions and loads more, you should be used to it by now. Virgin Media will increase there speed to up to 200MB now that BT infinity is on the move. BT won't catch up in time.

Virgin Media are all set for it,BT is splashing out on virtually a network and someones got to pay for that,now I wonder who's going to do that??? I know the customers using it!!!

[Ignitionnet]

Virgin Media are all set for it? The amount of congestion reports on the network at the moment, along with that higher upstreams are still in trial phase in a whole two production areas some 6 months after commencement of project says very much otherwise!

Of course customers will pay for the upgrades to the BT network, you think VM just magic capacity up though? They spent a fair amount, though not nearly as much as they should have, on 50Mbps and whatever they might claim aren't even close to ready for 200Mbit as a product. Have you noticed the routers that Virgin are giving out? Yes they have a 100Mbit WAN port, which wouldn't be enough for a 100Mbit service. This shows how close Virgin think 100Mbit is.

So who's going to pay for the network rebuilds, line cards, resegmentation, etc, needed for Virgin to deploy this extra capacity anyway??? I know, the customers using it!!!ONEONEONE (see what I did there? )

Anyway that's off topic for this thread given that the poster knows he has both available. I'd stay on the Virgin side as well... until Sky have their 40/10 product ready then I'd drop them like a hot potato.

[Callumpy]

I cant get BT or VM, so they both fail But if i could, BT because they have better uploads

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

I have to say that doesn't come across as funny it just comes across as pathetic, tacky and immature.

Most people who think that's amusing will be Sun readers who can't afford 50M and/or want it to leech crap from newsgroups to sell at the car boot anyway.

Seriously, grow up and get your own house in order rather than wasting money painting models' arses, the biggest arse in that picture is the VM PR crew who thought this would be funny.

Sorry BBs but I thought the press release was funny esecially this bit

Executive director of broadband at Virgin Media Jon James said: "This cheeky stunt was simply a humorous way to get across a serious message — that customers should demand what they are being promised from their internet providers."

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

I have to say that doesn't come across as funny it just comes across as pathetic, tacky and immature.

Most people who think that's amusing will be Sun readers who can't afford 50M and/or want it to leech crap from newsgroups to sell at the car boot anyway.

Seriously, grow up and get your own house in order rather than wasting money painting models' arses, the biggest arse in that picture is the VM PR crew who thought this would be funny.

at last we agree on something lol