I'm on XL [20mb] & getting 2mb UP?

[Kymmy]

Yeah but surely network performance is relevant all the way to the user

Now what I need to know is am I as a business customer likely to be left behind again by a jump in residential services??

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Yeah but surely network performance is relevant all the way to the user

Now what I need to know is am I as a business customer likely to be left behind again by a jump in residential services??

Not really, it's to establish network load, and network performance is monitored in the case of the upstream uplifts by the various stats that can be derived from the cable modem itself and the Virgin equipment it connects to. Things like SNRs, burst error rates, transmission power, etc, etc can all be polled at the modem and router. Relying on reports from the customer brings their equipment into the equation along with a reliance on their observations rather than facts and can muddy the waters somewhat.

No idea re: business customers.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Not really, it's to establish network load, and network performance is monitored in the case of the upstream uplifts by the various stats that can be derived from the cable modem itself and the Virgin equipment it connects to. Things like SNRs, burst error rates, transmission power, etc, etc can all be polled at the modem and router. Relying on reports from the customer brings their equipment into the equation along with a reliance on their observations rather than facts and can muddy the waters somewhat.

....

There you have it. Sod the customer's perception and long live non-transparency.

You're from the support side, I'm from the customer side (in this case).

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There you have it. Sod the customer's perception and long live non-transparency.

You're from the support side, I'm from the customer side (in this case).

And never the twain shall meet!

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There you have it. Sod the customer's perception and long live non-transparency.

You're from the support side, I'm from the customer side (in this case).

I'm from the 'been there, done that' side. Ever dealt with things like this or indeed worked for a large consumer ISP in operations or development? This is not an enterprise environment where each customer is paying huge amounts of money and demands individual attention.

Engaging every customer brings little value but involves a lot of extra time. This is a network trial, not a customer trial, it just requires the involvement of customers to work properly.

And again, apart from the tiny % of customers who are nerds, customers simply don't care. They just go 'Ooooh shiny' and carry on using their connections to up/download their porn, send and receive their email and browse their web pages.

Virgin Media is a high volume, mass market, low attention service. If customers want more attention and information than they might get from Virgin Media, Talk Talk, BT, Sky, etc, they have other options. It should of course be noted that these other options tend to be considerably more expensive.

Customer perception is not a part of these trials. Where it is required customers have the Samknows kit or have been directly engaged. It's purely about the networks.

[broadbandking]

So tell me as VM skipped DOCSIS 2.0, have the areas of the trials been upgrade so this is possible, as I understood it, VM was going to wait for DOCSIS 3.0 channel bonding on the upstreams to upgrade the upload speeds.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

The scope of current and upcoming trials is company confidential and technical support most certainly cannot be trusted to keep this to themselves, .......

If a customer is part of a trial they are flagged as such and their issues can be directed to the trial team.

I can't be trusted to keep my mouth shut either. So what happens to confidentiality now? Perhaps nobody checks in here, or any other forum, sussing out the opposition.

Also I haven't been flagged that I am on a trial, yet here I am on 5Mb upload.





Sorry to keep on posting speed test results, but I feel so superior.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by roughbeast

I can't be trusted to keep my mouth shut either. So what happens to confidentiality now? Perhaps nobody checks in here, or any other forum, sussing out the opposition.

Also I haven't been flagged that I am on a trial, yet here I am on 5Mb upload.

As I said the interesting bit isn't what has happened, but when things will. To ensure 'total transparency' technical support need to be aware of stuff before it happens.

I would imagine it will be very clear you are on a trial, you have a Samknows bit of kit getting 'perception' information, and you are on a non-standard tier. With the exception perhaps of the outsourced centre that probably struggle with logging into their thin clients in the morning it's very obvious you're on a trial

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Originally Posted by broadbandking

So tell me as VM skipped DOCSIS 2.0, have the areas of the trials been upgrade so this is possible, as I understood it, VM was going to wait for DOCSIS 3.0 channel bonding on the upstreams to upgrade the upload speeds.

No.

Some areas will run the DOCSIS 2 channels ok, some will need a little work, some will need a lot.

Even bonding VM will still need to upgrade some areas to make enough space and add enough laser capacity to cope with the channels - they will be bonding DOCSIS 2 channels.

Note that there's only a single upstream channel on the overlay network per area right now, not a lot to bond. In a lot of Ex-Telewest areas with their comprehensive network upgrade programmes that space for that single upstream channel had to be taken from the old network...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

....
Note that there's only a single upstream channel on the overlay network per area right now, not a lot to bond. In a lot of Ex-Telewest areas with their comprehensive network upgrade programmes that space for that single upstream channel had to be taken from the old network...

What do you define as an area in this case?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What do you define as an area in this case?

Fibre optic nodal area.

My own is old school Telewest and has the following upstreams:

18.8MHz - DOCSIS 1 - QPSK / 3.2MHz
22.0MHz - DOCSIS 1 - QPSK - 3.2MHz
25.8MHz - DOCSIS 1 - QPSK - 3.2MHz
28.8MHz - DOCSIS 1.1 - 16QAM - 3.2MHz

The 28.8 used to belong to the DOCSIS 1 network.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

As I said the interesting bit isn't what has happened, but when things will. To ensure 'total transparency' technical support need to be aware of stuff before it happens.

I would imagine it will be very clear you are on a trial, you have a Samknows bit of kit getting 'perception' information, and you are on a non-standard tier. With the exception perhaps of the outsourced centre that probably struggle with logging into their thin clients in the morning it's very obvious you're on a trial

Interesting. At no point has anyone official said that I am on a 5mb trial linked to SamKnows

[Ignitionnet]

You aren't, you just happened to be in an upstream trial area and on the Samknows performance trial at the same time.

Samknows kit is collecting 'customer perception' while the 5Mbit trial is collecting network data.

It will be noted you're on the performance monitoring trial.

[broadbandking]

Its a seperate trial but they might have linked the trials together.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

It will be noted you're on the performance monitoring trial.

.............but why wasn't I told? A non-nerdy user may not have noticed. Not that I care. Except, of course, when they withdraw me from the speed trial without notice!

I mustn't be so cynical or pessimistic. I could be on 10Mb before I know it.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by roughbeast

.............but why wasn't I told? A non-nerdy user may not have noticed. Not that I care. Except, of course, when they withdraw me from the speed trial without notice!

I mustn't be so cynical or pessimistic. I could be on 10Mb before I know it.

Did you not receive a Samknows box, or do I have you confused with someone else? I remember you posting about being selected for the Samknows trial I'm sure.

You weren't told because they want to see how the network performs with normal usage and how it copes with things. They did not want to start having people thinking that the trial is a service upgrade and complaining when they don't get their max trial speed or when it is withdrawn.

The other issue is that some people may avail themselves of the upgrade news by caning their upload 24x7 - not really a realistic representation of normal usage which is what they are interested in mostly.

If your modem copes ok, which it evidently does, and the network copes ok, which it also evidently does, mission accomplished. Now they just keep an eye on how capacity requirements are. They'll have some data on this from smaller trials but need more 'en masse' info.