VM to monitor File Sharing

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Based on all the documentation I've read so far (that has been linked to on this thread so many times now) Detica will not have access to any raw data.

they get the anonymised data where the ip address etc is hashed but they get the content of the file for digital finger printing

correct?

peter

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

they get the anonymised data where the ip address etc is hashed but they get the content of the file for digital finger printing

correct?

peter

I refer you back to the PDF in my last post which makes it quite clear what they get.

I don't think we then really need to start the whole argument over again do we?

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I refer you back to the PDF in my last post which makes it quite clear what they get.

I don't think we then really need to start the whole argument over again do we?

nope we don't need to start the argument again, but whilst i agree with you at this point on what is the output of the cview box at inception could be far different from the output after an update or change to the firmware

again as you say pure speculation, but it is a possibility and this is what needs to be highlighted

it is not so much what the kit can deliver on initial implimentation but what it "could" deliver after any firmware upgrades later without people being told

a bit like a modern car, go buy a modern car with electronically controlled fuel injection and then upgrade the firmware of the ECU and get 20% more power, does anyone need to know? until you have a prang and the insurance finds out and says "policy void" but what are the chances of being found out?

same applies to detica cview once in the network

peter

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

nope we don't need to start the argument again

Then why are you trying to? You've already speculated many many times before on this thread about exactly the same thing. What is the point of mentioning it yet again?

[bluecar1]

on a slightly light note

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03...right_caution/

"There's an increasing body of evidence that the policing of intellectual property has too often involved impinging on civil liberties, freedom of speech, privacy concerns, things that society may actually value at least as highly as intellectual property itself. There's a risk of an explosion there, I think, and it's a risk that the defenders of intellectual property themselves would do well to take note of," he said.

i think we may be seeing the start of this, due to various things over the last few years waking people up to there rights, freedom of speech / expressiion and privacy being weakened by the big business out there using heavy handed mechanisms

it is an interesting view on the piracy / copyright issues which detica cview is designed to measure, so i think it is on topic

peter

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Then why are you trying to? You've already speculated many many times before on this thread about exactly the same thing. What is the point of mentioning it yet again?

what i said was no need to start the arguement about the output of the detica cview box at the inception, but what needs to be highlighted is the options for upgrades / mission creep later once it is enabled

and that this needs to be nailed down before the box is allowed in the network

this is an area of uk law that is very weakly enforced, especially when big business is involved again joe public, as the ICO has not been given the relevant teeth, the statutory instruments have not been activated so he is powerless on many areas he is responsible for (eg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/12/ico_jail/)

so we need to see this nailed down and the ISP's told "exactly" what they can and can't do with customer traffic / data, as there are to many grey areas / loop holes at present

i have no problem with correctly collected data being used for a stated purpose, so long as it complies with all the relevant legislation (UK, EU) at the time and sufficient safeguards on the privacy etc are in place

part of the problem is the way HM gov has enacted various bit of EU legislation within UK law, that means it has watered down our rights compared to other EU states, (hence the infraction proceeding against the UK) at present it would appear that what cview does "may" be legal under UK law, but "may" be questionable under EU legislation

and that the EU is having to drag the UK kicking and screaming to the european court to sort it out, the main issues is the UK's very narrow definition of PII (personally identifiable information)

and hence why the need to prevent any possible mission creep of the cview kit

peter

[mindjuicer]

My torrent speeds seem to have dropped through the floor. Been getting around 10kps for the last 2 days.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by mindjuicer

My torrent speeds seem to have dropped through the floor. Been getting around 10kps for the last 2 days.

Are you hinting that this is the reason ? Because if your are then your barking up the wrong tree to be honest.

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by mindjuicer

My torrent speeds seem to have dropped through the floor. Been getting around 10kps for the last 2 days.

highly unlikely to be cview

as not to be used for throttling (as it is a listening / monitoring system) and it states can't be used to identify people / connections

also as far as anyone is aware it is not in use yet, see my post above it seems hm gov are in talks with the EU over cview, as they will not answer FoI requests on it, so talks seem to be ongoing

you are being throttled by either the far end or the standard DPI kit in VM's network

are you using an encrypted torrent? if not then when / if cview activated then it can be used to add your traffic to the stats it gathers

peter

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

i agree , the "initial" spec of the system is not designed to identify users, but as was stated in richard clayton, there is the ability to alter the code which "may" make it possible to alter the system

In fairness to Detica, the code in any one of a number of devices on the VM network could theoretically be altered for nefarious purposes such as spying on users. There is no evidence that VM have the inclination to do this, however.

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by Stuart C

In fairness to Detica, the code in any one of a number of devices on the VM network could theoretically be altered for nefarious purposes such as spying on users. There is no evidence that VM have the inclination to do this, however.

yep, fully agree, but most of those devices are under direct control of VM, but the cview boxes i assume will be under direct control of detica who supply all sorts of snooping tech to hm gov etc with VM only seeing the resulting reports

i have a bit more trust in VM than detica after a few little bits that have come out re phorm but i would really love to hear the real reason behind cview, as the stats it produces are of so little real value due to the ease which the system can be scuppered by basic encryption

now call me synical but with this goverments love for survielance of it's citizens i would not trust that as far as i could throw them and i believe detica are also heavilly involved in IMP (interception modernisation program) equipment / system supply but that would be yet more speculation and with no one able to see the data or system in real detail after installation there is nothing to prove

and yes i do have a tin ingot i am slowly battering into a hat shape

peter

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

but the cview boxes i assume will be under direct control of detica

Can you provide a link to where Detica say they will retain control of the CView device?

[Hugh]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

yep, fully agree, but most of those devices are under direct control of VM, but the cview boxes i assume will be under direct control of detica who supply all sorts of snooping tech to hm gov etc with VM only seeing the resulting reports

i have a bit more trust in VM than detica after a few little bits that have come out re phorm but i would really love to hear the real reason behind cview, as the stats it produces are of so little real value due to the ease which the system can be scuppered by basic encryption

now call me synical but with this goverments love for survielance of it's citizens i would not trust that as far as i could throw them and i believe detica are also heavilly involved in IMP (interception modernisation program) equipment / system supply but that would be yet more speculation and with no one able to see the data or system in real detail after installation there is nothing to prove

and yes i do have a tin ingot i am slowly battering into a hat shape

peter

?????

I am feeling a bit under the weather, with a concomitant degradation in cognitive faculties, but I really don't understand that statement.

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Can you provide a link to where Detica say they will retain control of the CView device?

all the data etc goes to detica to produce the reports and only the reports get forwarded to VM after the data has been processed, and it is a closed loop system so my reading is other than the big switch VM have no direct control or visibility of the operation or config of the cview boxes but would make requests through detica for information or changes

as you ask where is the link that says they are under detica control , there is also no link to say they are under VM control but reading the information available i consider it a likely probability they are under detica controll rather than VM or else VM would be able to produce the reports themselves

peter

[BenMcr]

More speculation and rumour on your part without any evidence to back it up then. Exactly why this thread got pointless.

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

?????

I am feeling a bit under the weather, with a concomitant degradation in cognitive faculties, but I really don't understand that statement.

what i am trying to say i that in my mind due to the possible lack of direct visibility of config and control of these boxes by VM and the fact detica are heavilly into tracking and defense contracts for HM gov these boxes are very well placed to covertly gather data for the security services as well as there public job, what better place than a fibre tap on an isp backbone?

i know that is not what the spec says etc and i know it is speculation but i have come to distrust this government (like many others do) due to their thirst for control and survielance (i know i can't spell either) of the citizens of the UK and would not put it past them to try something like that as the chance of getting caught is virtually nil

remember in the UK we are one of the most monitored people in the world http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108496.stm and it has got worse since that report

but that is then going off topic


peter