VM to monitor File Sharing

[Toto]

Originally Posted by ahardie

Wouldn't that be covered by this quote Toto?

No, I am questioning Ben's comments about the recent news that ACS law are starting a new batch of court orders for copyright infringements.

Originally Posted by Toto

No, I am questioning Ben's comments about the recent news that ACS law are starting a new batch of court orders for copyright infringements.

Sorry, got the wrong end of the stick...not for the first time.

I should have looked at the post you were quoting.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Toto

How do you know Virgin have not, or will not be approached by a Court (at the behest of ACS Law) to provide this data?

By approached I mean ordered.

That is different than being involved. ACS:Law do their own monitoring and then request via the court details on the user of the IP they have monitored.

Those Court Orders have already covered Virgin along with every other ISP

However what is being discussed here will not result in anything like what ACS are doing

[popper]

Originally Posted by ahardie

Sorry, got the wrong end of the stick...not for the first time.

I should have looked at the post you were quoting.

theres nothing wrong with asking the questions and looking for the answers, even if they turn out not to be what you initally expected.

thats a nature of things, theres always something interesting just around the corner, you learn the lessons and change your opinion as you progress....

given we already know they need to link the two parts of the data gathered together to send out any infringment letters its clear that the quote you posted is potentially trying to misslead the casual readers into thinking they dont, wont, and/or cant use identification information to link it together in some way with the account data or else they cant send a letter can they, but would you expect them to say anything different!

remember the actual bill has only had its first reading and its got to get past the lords and the legal people there that know the intent of EU directives and Uk case law etc...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200...37337023.shtml

"bill doesn't even specify "three" strikes for users. Instead, it requires ISPs to notify users with warnings -- and to notify copyright holders that they did notify users -- and if file sharing is not reduced by 70% in a year (with no indication of how this is measured), then the government will tell ISPs to start kicking people off the internet.
"

i also found this related research to be rather interesting too.... if a little suprising...
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200...58236974.shtml
Studies
by Mike Masnick
Wed, Nov 25th 2009 6:51pm

Researchers: Copying And Imitation Is Good For Society

from the it's-damn-important dept

"....
some researchers have started to look into it, and actually have built a model that shows society is likely better off when copying is the norm.

Aaron deOliveira alerts us to the research on this, which tries to model societies with creators and innovators, and finds that society is served best when 30% of the population is involved in creating new goods, while 70% is focused on copying.

Now, you can read through the full research and quibble with the methodology, but the basic premise is sound,....
...
"

[Welshchris]

What i dont understand is why wait until after christmas?
+
If people are worried is there anyway of finding out from your ISP if your one of these people that have had info passed on about them as many people im sure will be worried.

[popper]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

That is different than being involved. ACS:Law do their own monitoring and then request via the court details on the user of the IP they have monitored.

Those Court Orders have already covered Virgin along with every other ISP

However what is being discussed here will not result in anything like what ACS are doing

actually they dont, its outsourced to several 3rd partys and their not even in this country, you should really try putting a search engine to good use about these things you assume ....

and you know this "will not result in anything like what ACS are doing" How exactly ? , ACS are well know to change tack and use several options that become open to them for their for profit law business as time passes to keep up their profits, perhaps they and others like them see this new VM initative as a fish in a barrel opportunity for getting ever more new income for old rope off other peoples workloads, if you were them wouldnt you try and profit from this ambulance chasing opportunity for your corporate bank balance...

"http://beingthreatened.yolasite.com/press-index.php
Profits from fear
According to one of the law firms, 15% to 40% of letter recipients pay up [7]. That amounts to millions of pounds. It is estimated that 10% of the money goes to the publishers. The remainder goes to the for-profit 'data monitoring' companies and the solicitors. Millions for the cost of a mailshot; it is only a matter of time before other opportunists jump on this particularly profitable bandwagon [8].
"

"
Flawed evidence
Data is provided by two private monitoring companies: Digiprotect and Logistep based, respectively, in Germany and Switzerland. They harvest IP addresses (unique internet addresses which identify a connection) from filesharing networks. The solicitors, instructed by the game, music and movie publishing companies, then use a Norwich Pharmacal order (NPO) [10] to get subscriber data for the IP addresses from the internet service providers (ISPs).


Many people are able to see the likely evidential flaws in the methods. However, there is frustration that, in the absence of a contested case, the only evidence released is simply a list of dates, times, and IP addresses and therefore people are unable to seek expert advice or address the evidence of claims alleged. There is clearly potential for misidentification of individuals between the IP address and the data kept by the ISP. This is in addition to spoofing concerns and general doubts in the whole chain of custody. Indeed, the ISPs Association has admitted that ISPs aren't convinced that the right people are identified....."

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by popper

actually they dont, its outsourced to several 3rd partys and their not even in this country, you should really try putting a search engine to good use about these things you assume ....

But it's still them that have requested the monitoring

and you know this "will not result in anything like what ACS are doing" How exactly ? ,

Because based on what the PDF said earlier the boxes that will be used for what this thread is discussing anonymise the data and discards the identifyable data before any human gets to see it.

So there would be nothing for ACS:Law to request through the courts

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by WestYorks

It wont affect me in a negative way one bit, I can guarantee that, time will prove it

Carry on with your opinion, but I know I will be fine with this trial

The question is not whether you are "fine with it", but whether it is legal. That is an important question and worth a fair amount of attention as the consequences of VM doing an illegal trial are potentially severe, both for VM, its customers, and the UK, especially as the UK government is already facing investigation for failing to protect its internet consumers against illegal interception of communications during the Phorm trials of 2006 and 2007.

Many months ago BT assured us that the Phorm covert trials were legal. And now we face the situation where the UK government is in the third stage of EU Commission infringement proceedings. It does seem VERY likely that the EU Commission will be VERY interested in the trial being proposed by VM. The arguments used by Detica about CView sound very similar to those used by Phorm and BT over the 2006, 2007 and 2008 trials.

The most effective way of stopping VM doing this will be for customers to vote with their feet, and find another ISP, citing Detica as the reason.

Is there anyway of finding out from the ISP if anyone has asked for personal data before letters are given out!

[Welshchris]

well im sure you could ring Virgin support and ask.

[popper]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

But it's still them that have requested the monitoring

Because based on what the PDF said earlier the boxes that will be used for what this thread is discussing anonymise the data and discards the identifyable data before any human gets to see it.

So there would be nothing for ACS:Law to request through the courts

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/25...ort-lyons.html
Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons or ACS?

[BenMcr]

Yes I know, but that has nothing to do with this

[popper]

Originally Posted by chris26engwales

Is there anyway of finding out from the ISP if anyone has asked for personal data before letters are given out!

just a basic outline, as most people dont bother reading or remembering the info in the old threads refering to this data protection controller iv posted and linked to many times before....

you can send Virgin media's 'data controller' an official data protection Notice that they supply you any and all data they have processed and supplied in the time period your interested in, to who and why etc.

you can also remove your permission for them to use/process YOUR data for anything other than accounting, billing and the upkeep of your contract with them...

Put it in a registered letter and send each official notice to the virgin media data controller seperately.

under the data protection law's it's YOUR personal data, and you can remove and re-instate any part of the permission you have granted them inside the contract or elswere ,at Your pleasure... and an 'official notice' at any time..

google search on data protection Notice uk clicked

scan through http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-forums-center

or ask a legal advisor for help and explain Vm's obligations as 'data controller' regarding following your orders as regards Your data etc.




Under the first data protection principle, a data controller must justify its processing of personal data under one of the following conditions:

• the data subject has given his consent to the processing;
• the processing is necessary for the performance of a contract or the entering into of a contract to which the data subject is a party;
• the processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject;
• the processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject;
• the processing is necessary for the administration of justice; or
• the processing is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the data controller provided such processing does not harm the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of data subjects.

http://www.out-law.com/page-413



http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-personal.html
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ridge-law.html

[Ignitionnet]

Interesting posts popper but don't change that what VM are doing with CView is nothing at all to do with what ACS:Law are doing. Indeed bringing that into this discussion is actually off topic given that even if a law suit were levied against VM The CView system ensures that they simply don't have data to supply the lawyers.

The lawyers will keep using the same programs that spy on torrent swarms, it has nothing to do with the CView system.

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by popper

just a basic outline, as most people dont bother reading or remembering the info in the old threads refering to this data protection controller iv posted and linked to many times before....

you can send Virgin media's 'data controller' an official data protection Notice that they supply you any and all data they have processed and supplied in the time period your interested in, to who and why etc.

you can also remove your permission for them to use/process YOUR data for anything other than accounting, billing and the upkeep of your contract with them...

Put it in a registered letter and send each official notice to the virgin media data controller seperately.

under the data protection law's it's YOUR personal data, and you can remove and re-instate any part of the permission you have granted them inside the contract or elswere ,at Your pleasure... and an 'official notice' at any time..

google search on data protection Notice uk clicked

scan through http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-forums-center

or ask a legal advisor for help and explain Vm's obligations as 'data controller' regarding following your orders as regards Your data etc.




Under the first data protection principle, a data controller must justify its processing of personal data under one of the following conditions:

• the data subject has given his consent to the processing;
• the processing is necessary for the performance of a contract or the entering into of a contract to which the data subject is a party;
• the processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject;
• the processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject;
• the processing is necessary for the administration of justice; or
• the processing is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the data controller provided such processing does not harm the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of data subjects.

http://www.out-law.com/page-413



http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-personal.html
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ridge-law.html

Excellent post here, do u by any chance have the address for the VM Department mentioned?