Upload Speed for 50Mb when it being upgraded

[Ignitionnet]

Be more beneficial to open a new thread to be honest sir, this will only get lost amongst the discussion on the upgrades.

[StumpyBloke]

Will do, thanks!

[DABhand]

I almost laughed when I heard the 200mb testers were only getting 5mb/s upload.

It is abysmal in this day and age :P

EDIT: Especially when you can hire a dedicated 100mb box for buttons with a couple of TB bandwith at hand. A lot of people have been using these, to share torrents etc with, and just ftp or direct links to download what they have grabbed and shared. So the box for that little extra amount is a huge slap in VM's faces, and dont forget its a dedicated 100mb box.. 100mb/s upload (and in the UK to boot).

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by DABhand

I almost laughed when I heard the 200mb testers were only getting 5mb/s upload.

It is abysmal in this day and age :P

EDIT: Especially when you can hire a dedicated 100mb box for buttons with a couple of TB bandwith at hand. A lot of people have been using these, to share torrents etc with, and just ftp or direct links to download what they have grabbed and shared. So the box for that little extra amount is a huge slap in VM's faces, and dont forget its a dedicated 100mb box.. 100mb/s upload (and in the UK to boot).

And in a datacentre, not someone's home.

The 200Mbit testers have had as much as 50Mbit upload to play with just fyi - not that it's relevant to what others may get but there we go.

VM couldn't care less about these slaps in the face, the people are still spending their money with VM and VM don't have to pay out to upgrade areas.

Dedi boxes aren't guaranteed bandwidth by the way, that would indeed cost megabucks and wouldn't have a transfer cap.

You cannot compare bandwidth to a datacentre with bandwidth from the home, the most expensive part of VM's network, by far, to provide bandwidth over is the last mile.

[Impz2002]

a dedicated server in a datacenter is so much cheaper as these companies have direct peering arrangements with tier 1 networks. as broadbandings has said its the last mile where all the cost is incurred.

[roughbeast]

Now they have upgraded me to 10Mb upload. As expected, this is without telling me.

CABLE MODEM

•Information

•Status

•Downstream

•Upstream

•Upstream Burst

•Operation Config.

•Event Log

Cable Modem Operation Configuration
General Configuration
Network Access : Allowed
Maximum Number of CPEs : 1
Baseline Privacy : Enabled
DOCSIS Mode : DOCSIS 3.0
Config File : a69834ncxv9873254k;f
Primary Downstream Service Flow
SFID : 2805
Max Traffic Rate : 53000000 bps
Max Traffic Burst : 3044 bytes
Min Traffic Rate : 0 bps
Primary Upstream Service Flow
SFID : 2804
Max Traffic Rate : 10240000 bps**
Max Traffic Burst : 16000 bytes
Min Traffic Rate : 0 bps
Max Concatenated Burst : 16000 bytes
Scheduling Type : Best Effort

Interestingly I haven't had an upload speed test of over 5Mb yet. Perhaps they are only partway through the upgrade process, or perhaps the Coventry network can't actually take it.

[Ignitionnet]

I have no idea at all. I've seen DOCSIS 2 deployed and it certainly didn't take as long as these trials have. I'm somewhat mystified as to what they are actually trialling.

Would have thought they'd have done network trials which wouldn't have involved speeds being adjusted at all, then done the load testing once they knew what the networks were capable of.

Beast - do you still have just the one upstream active on your modem? I guess they may be on to trialling bonding now.

Someone must be worried about losing their job when / if this stuff ever actually leaves trial phase and starts going live. Could've built totally new cable networks in the trial areas by now.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

...............Beast - do you still have just the one upstream active on your modem? I guess they may be on to trialling bonding now.

Someone must be worried about losing their job when / if this stuff ever actually leaves trial phase and starts going live. Could've built totally new cable networks in the trial areas by now.

I'm not sure how you tell if I have more than one upstream channel. Looking at this I only have one. The channel appears to only be capable of 5Mb, yet my config suggests 10Mb. Perhaps they have to initiate the second channel before I can achieve that max. Or maybe I am talking rubbish.

Cable Modem Upstream
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4
Channel Type 2.0 N/A N/A N/A
Channel ID 3 N/A N/A N/A
Frequency
(Hz) 45800000 N/A N/A N/A
Ranging Status Success N/A N/A N/A
Modulation 16QAM N/A N/A N/A
Symbol Rate
(KSym/sec) 5120 N/A N/A N/A
Mini-Slot Size 1 N/A N/A N/A
Power Level
(dBmV) 44.25 N/A N/A N/A
T1 Timeouts 0
T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
T3 Timeouts 0 0 0 0
T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0

Let me know if I need to look somewhere else.

[Ignitionnet]

5120kSym/s * 4 bits per symbol (16QAM) = 20480kbps (20Mbit) of which about 18Mbit is usable.

It's exactly the same type of channel you were getting 5Mbps on earlier and exactly the same channels that have been running in Huddersfield so what they're trying to prove

Thanks for the info.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

5120kSym/s * 4 bits per symbol (16QAM) = 20480kbps (20Mbit) of which about 18Mbit is usable.

It's exactly the same type of channel you were getting 5Mbps on earlier and exactly the same channels that have been running in Huddersfield so what they're trying to prove

Thanks for the info.

the classic NTL/Virgin Media PR innovation perhaps ! their PR moves to the CPE kit , My modem says its set for 10 Mbit/s upload so thats what im getting.

---------- Post added at 03:40 ---------- Previous post was at 03:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

And in a datacentre, not someone's home.

The 200Mbit testers have had as much as 50Mbit upload to play with just fyi - not that it's relevant to what others may get but there we go.

VM couldn't care less about these slaps in the face, the people are still spending their money with VM and VM don't have to pay out to upgrade areas.

Dedi boxes aren't guaranteed bandwidth by the way, that would indeed cost megabucks and wouldn't have a transfer cap.

You cannot compare bandwidth to a datacentre with bandwidth from the home, the most expensive part of VM's network, by far, to provide bandwidth over is the last mile.

i dont think so Broadbandings, its hardly compareable, a one off cost for the single CPE modem,UBR etc in the last so called mile.

they spend far more of your subscription PCM on VM core network bandwidth passing over the external links, were an internal re-config would more likely push it over the available direct peered links in the data centers around the world.

[|Kippa|]

This technical thing about bonding for upload, can the current modems that the 50mbit users have do this? If so is it possible to get 10+ mbit upload rate on it.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by popper

i dont think so Broadbandings, its hardly compareable, a one off cost for the single CPE modem,UBR etc in the last so called mile.

they spend far more of your subscription PCM on VM core network bandwidth passing over the external links, were an internal re-config would more likely push it over the available direct peered links in the data centers around the world.

I spent a little while contemplating how to answer this but will settle at saying that Google has denied you information here and that must be your only source given that anyone who has worked with broadband networks knows where the costs are beyond any doubt.

It's not a 'one off' cost when an operator has to spend 6k on lasers, at least another couple of k on engineering time and possibly tens of thousands more pulling fibres and doing civil engineering just to deliver another 50Mbps to 500 customers when the bandwidth fills up.

The CMTS cards themselves are still a bucket load of money per downstream and remembering how few customers each card serves that takes a while to get back.

As a thought to you for the price of the lasers just to do a single HFC node split one can purchase 2 x 10Gbit Ethernet extended reach XFPs.

The HFC network is, bar far, the most likely section of network to experience outages due to it being out in the field with no resiliency as you'd find in an optical backbone ring.

VM budget their customers at around 100kbps each - cost to VM even if zero peering is used on this at core level is going to be less than 50p/month even worst case. An average optical resegmentation affecting 500 homes and costing about 10k will take over 3 years to be paid for at that price.

Think economies of scale - you run on the core network you're one of many running on nice big links in big fibre bundles with off the shelf equipment as found in core networks everywhere going off to connect to other ISPs at high volume pre-negotiated rates. When you're on the cable network you're sitting on your little 500 - 1000 homes passed fibre optic node having a service delivered via ruggedised equipment in street cabinets. and soaking up half of a CMTS line card that costs as much as a 10GbE ER XFP, along with an optical transceiver system that costs as much as a pair of them.

I have as you may remember worked for both the 'cable company' and a 'DSL company' and can assure you that in both fields the investment in the core networks was nothing compared with node splits and plant upgrades on the cable side and exchange backhauls and MSAN installs on the DSL side.

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:05 ----------

Originally Posted by |Kippa|

This technical thing about bonding for upload, can the current modems that the 50mbit users have do this? If so is it possible to get 10+ mbit upload rate on it.

Yes and yes, they've done considerably more than 10 in the past.

[roughbeast]

As we noted earlier my modem has been set for 10Mb upload, but still only has one upload channel capable of 5Mbish. I am now maxing on that channel. See below. I will let you know if and when VM trial testers add another upstream channel. If they don't then I am as perplexed as BB is.

[Ignitionnet]

As I noted earlier that channel is capable of about 18Mbps so that's not the issue.

5120kSym/s * 4 bits per symbol (16QAM) = 20480kbps (20Mbit) of which about 18Mbit is usable.

It should be noted it is a trial, so no guarantee at all of performance, etc, etc, and anything above the usual 1.75M is a bonus.

[|Kippa|]

Is there likely going to be an upgrade page on VM? I remember on some upgrades a few years ago there was a page outlining which had been upgraded.