Virgin's 50Mb broadband arriving December 15?

[Fatec]

Originally Posted by TheDon

No, you really can't.

There isn't a single person out there who is viewing VOD on an illegal box. It's simply not possible.

The VOD servers WILL NOT supply a stream unless the box is registered to an account that has the VOD service enabled on it.

Hacking PPV worked because the streams are sent regardless, good luck getting a VOD stream on an illegal box, it aint gonna happen.

I was with you till here.

Sorry, you are wrong on this part, VOD works fine on certain boxes, i've seen it working and a quick google search will tell you how...

Edit : You have a PM.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by Fatec

I was with you till here.

Sorry, you are wrong on this part, VOD works fine on certain boxes, i've seen it working and a quick google search will tell you how...

Edit : You have a PM.

As replied in PM, you can only view VOD that others have requested in your area as the VOD streams are essentially just local channels where the content is dynamically controlled by the VOD servers (this is also why there is a limit to the amount of VOD streams in one area).

You cannot request or control a stream yourself without having a legitimate box and subscription.

edit: ofc there is an exception with chipped boxes rather than 3rd party boxes, but these will need the talkback reconnected, and will be VERY easy to trace, and require the box to have the MAC of a legitimate box that has an active VOD service.

[caph]

Originally Posted by cook1984

They will have separate UBRs etc which will eliviate the problem of oversubscribed UBRs somewhat, but from there they will be using the same network as everyone else from the local exchange to VM head office and out onto the wider internet.

The same network that struggles to cope with all the people on iPlayer and YouTube every evening.

I'm no expert on these things but it seems to be general knowledge at the moment on this forum that the UBRs are being upgraded from one piece of Cisco kit to another which supports Docsis 1, 2 and 3. There will be no separation, everyone will be plugged in to these new UBRs.

Also, and again this just seems to be general knowledge on this forum, the congestion problem is at the UBR (I can personally vouch for this from experience) and UBR splitting aside, will be solved by 1, 2, and 3 all sharing the same network at the same time but not interfering with each other.

If you want more info on these two points, search this forum for posts by Broadbandings. He seems to know more about these things than is healthy for a mere mortal.

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by broadbandking

The 20Mb users wont have to pay a thing they are just been moved as the the modems that 20Mb users should be using have DOCSIS 2.0 capabilties, so the customer has to do NOTHING.

if this is the case why did this person + 2 others at Chief Execs office state profoundly that 20mb will be on DOCSIS 3.0 and not DOCSIS 2.0.

[Rik]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

When did I say it was unbreakable? Oh that's right I didn't.

The only reason cloned modems exist at the moment is that someone can use a legitimate MAC from one part of the network onto another part of the network.


Indeed, but the encryption is just one part of the whole, and AFAIK DOCSIS 2 and 3 add a lot more hurdles to jump to make it work.

I did not say it would stop cloning, but it could make it difficult enough to make it not worth doing.

It is also going to be a lot harder to get away with selling DOCSIS 3.0 modems, because only Virgin Media uses the technology in the UK. As the modems VM are using are completely customised, and they only use one type, having a DOCSIS 3.0 modem from another maker is going to scream 'Pirate'


No, because the box doesn't 'talk' to anything. STB decryption is a one way thing.

The 'cracked' STBs can recieve encrypted TV, but you can't get them work with On-Demand because of the extra checks involved (and most of them probably have the return path disabled to stop Virgin noticing them on the network)


Nope, because I know enough to know when someone doesn't know what they are taking about


It does if you understand how cable broadband works. All current customers from 2 to 20Mbit are on one network (DOCSIS 1)

50Mbit customers are going to be on a completely seperate network that just happens to use the same cables.

So if you move a customer from 20Mbit to 50Mbit, you free up a space on the older network. Therefore there is less usage on the older network, meaning those that remain have more space

Get it now?


And what do you think the DOCSIS 3 network is? It is a completely new and massive network upgrade


Not true at all, in fact it is very easy to detect cloned modems. The problem is keeping up with the cloning, because of the lack of security. However the move to the new network with solve most of that


There is no point trying to compete with the cloners. As I, and others may point out, the best way is to move customers onto a network where cloning become financially unviable


Apple's business model has nothing to do with the broadband market, and doesn't even work as a comparable example


Yes full fibre would be wonderful. Where are Virgin going to get the billions of pounds it needs to push FTTH? Even BT seem to have decided they can't raise that cash.


I'm not a fan of STM at all, but if it's either that, or the DOCSIS 1 network grinding to halt, I know which I would prefer.

Both the HD options you have mentioned have nothing to do with Virgin


And I'm still waiting for them


So launching a 50Mbit product isn't a positive step then?

Very good post.

Everyone seems to work in the IT World and be an expert in their field these days, the difference is you can spot the "Real" experts a mile off, well i can...

[Zhadnost]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

if this is the case why did this person + 2 others at Chief Execs office state profoundly that 20mb will be on DOCSIS 3.0 and not DOCSIS 2.0.

I'm sure they meant that it would be on the DOCSIS 3.0 network, not that they will neccesarily be running DOCSIS 3.0.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

if this is the case why did this person + 2 others at Chief Execs office state profoundly that 20mb will be on DOCSIS 3.0 and not DOCSIS 2.0.

They will be moved off the DOCSIS 1.0 network which is the main point.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by Zhadnost

I'm sure they meant that it would be on the DOCSIS 3.0 network, not that they will neccesarily be running DOCSIS 3.0.

Indeed.

The DOCSIS 3 equipment is backwards compatible, so DOCSIS 2 equipment can connect to it fine.

20MB will be switched to use the DOCSIS 3 equipment, but will run at DOCSIS 2.

[cook1984]

Originally Posted by TheDon

20MB will be switched to use the DOCSIS 3 equipment, but will run at DOCSIS 2.

Finally someone who gets it.

All this will do then is take pressure off oversubscribed UBRs. Once the traffic reaches the UBR it all joins the same network though, so the problems that affect everyone like slowness in the evenings and rubbish latency/ping times will only get worse.

[gunner45]

My understanding is that VM had about 30 analogue channels but started to switch them off earlier this year. Won't this give more capacity for broadband?

[Welshchris]

I think ur missing out what im saying here, they said they will be using DOCSIS 3.0 NOT DOCSIS 2.0 but DOCSIS 3.0.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

I think ur missing out what im saying here, they said they will be using DOCSIS 3.0 NOT DOCSIS 2.0 but DOCSIS 3.0.

They'll be on the DOCSIS 3 platform which is backwards compatible with DOCSIS 2 modems.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by cook1984

Finally someone who gets it.

Yeah, I get it in that, and yet I disagree with what you're saying.

Originally Posted by cook1984

All this will do then is take pressure off oversubscribed UBRs. Once the traffic reaches the UBR it all joins the same network though, so the problems that affect everyone like slowness in the evenings and rubbish latency/ping times will only get worse.

Everyone?

They don't effect me, or near enough everyone I know on VM.

I have zero slowdown, I can pull full speed any time I wish, and my ping times in games rarely hit above 40 for UK based servers. My pings to any website in the UK rarely go above 20. Until recently though, I struggled to hit over 10meg, since some ubr work was done though it's been 20meg all the way with no issues, once again showing that the issues experienced by many are all local, and as I said earlier, VM's backhaul capacity and external links are fine.

Switching 20meg onto the Docsis 3 setup should solve all of the issues.

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Welshchris

I think ur missing out what im saying here, they said they will be using DOCSIS 3.0 NOT DOCSIS 2.0 but DOCSIS 3.0.

It is using it, DOCSIS 3 is essentially DOCSIS 2 with channel bonding.

It will be using the DOCSIS 3 platform, but it wont take advantage of channel bonding, as such it's using the DOCSIS 3 frequencies, the DOCSIS 3 equipment, but without using bonded channels, this means that DOCSIS 2 equipment is capable of providing the service.

Essentially, it WILL be running on DOCSIS 3, but as it's not using bonded channels you'll only need a DOCSIS 2 modem to beable to get it.

[Welshchris]

Originally Posted by Zhadnost

I'm sure they meant that it would be on the DOCSIS 3.0 network, not that they will neccesarily be running DOCSIS 3.0.

Again i think u get the wrong idea, they specifically said will run Docsis 3.0

[BenMcr]

Go ask them again then. Specifically ask them whether they will be replacing every 10 and 20Mbit customer's modem, as that is the only way someone can be on DOCSIS 3.0