T&Cs and contract law

[Gary L]

If you inform VM that you do not accept the changes in the Terms and Conditions. they either have to keep you on the old terms before the changes, or cancel your contract with themselves by giving you 30 days notice.
Once they have been informed by yourself that you do not accept the changes they have made. they can't hold you to them. they have to do one of the above. they can't automatically sign you up to the new terms if they are not acceptable to you.

If you want to cancel your contract that you are still tied to with them, then you can do it the easy way and contact them telling them that you do not accept the new terms and you want out.
They have to let you go, they can't hold you to the rest of the term of the contract and they cannot penalise you either for ending the contract early.

It has to be said that you only have a certain amount of time to inform them of not accepting the changes, this is usually around 30 days after the new terms have been published. that is one reason why they do not make any effort to let you know of any changes they have made.

Also note that if they persuade you to stay with them by means of a special offer, then these usually mean you entering a fresh 12 months contract, and also means that you accept all changes to the T&Cs.

note to admin - this is about changes to the T&Cs in general. not just to do with Phorm

[BenMcr]

The only option you have is to cancel.

It is section J3 of Virgin's Terms

If:

1. we and/or Virgin Media Payments increase our charges under this agreement;
2. we make significant changes to the services so the services you are entitled to receive in return for the charges you pay are significantly altered or reduced; or
3. we and/or Virgin Media Payments make significant changes to the terms and conditions of this agreement (including the other legal stuff),

you may cancel those services affected without penalty by giving us at least 30 days' notice in writing. If you cancel any services in these circumstances, the increased charges will not apply to those services during the 30 day notice period and paragraph J2 will not apply if you cancel before the end of the minimum period. If you do not give us notice of cancellation within 30 days of any increase in charges or changes to the services or this agreement being notified to you or, if later, receipt of your first bill following such increase in charges, we and Virgin Media Payments will assume that you have accepted the increase in charges and the changes to the services and this agreement and you will no longer be able to cancel your services under this paragraph

.

[LostintheNW]

As long as they notify you of such changes - such as the nice new traffic management system which I have yet to recieve any formal notification from the stupid company itself! They seem to update the T&C's then politely tell you some 6 months down the line they are available on the website in their updated format - not what I call being notified in advance

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The only option you have is to cancel.

It is section J3 of Virgin's Terms

.

That is the main option, and that is why they would have to give you the notice themselves after you have informed them of non acceptance.

---------- Post added at 14:06 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

Originally Posted by LostintheNW

As long as they notify you of such changes - such as the nice new traffic management system which I have yet to recieve any formal notification from the stupid company itself! They seem to update the T&C's then politely tell you some 6 months down the line they are available on the website in their updated format - not what I call being notified in advance

They think that publishing it on their website is sufficient enough. and how wrong they are. especially as there is no clue as to there being any changes made at all.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Gary L

That is the main option, and that is why they would have to give you the notice themselves after you have informed them of non acceptance.

Eh? You tell Virgin your non-acceptance by giving them 30 days notice. That is it. It is not Virgin giving you notice.

They think that publishing it on their website is sufficient enough. and how wrong they are. especially as there is no clue as to there being any changes made at all.

The latest price changes were on the website AND sent out in the post to everyone

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The latest price changes were on the website AND sent out in the post to everyone

Well they would have to tell everyone about price changes, wouldn't they. they are not a change to terms and conditions.

[BenMcr]

And the STM is covered by this bit of the T&Cs

We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the interactive services on your Virgin TV and/or Internet access. In the event that you exceed any usage allowance applicable to your Internet access or your use does not comply with the 'acceptable use policy' which you can read on the Virgin Media website, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet access. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet access charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet access to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge. If we make such changes we will notify you as soon as possible.

Which hasn't changed

[LostintheNW]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

And the STM is covered by this bit of the T&Cs



Which hasn't changed

When I took the internet back in the day from this shower of shoddyness I was not given any notice of any terms and conditions, nor was there any usage allowance....since there is a usage allowance they should stop advertising it as an unlimited service.

The T&C must have been changed to cover the STM service anyway as this was something that was not around awhile ago

[BenMcr]

The clause I have posted has been in the T&Cs since Feb 2007 (Section B, Part 4i). This was when the T&Cs were reissued in writing to all customers as part of the Virgin Media rebranding communications

This link is to the terms at that point http://web.archive.org/web/200702141...ble/terms.html

[LostintheNW]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

The clause I have posted has been in the T&Cs since Feb 2007 (Section B, Part 4i). This was when the T&Cs were reissued in writing to all customers as part of the Virgin Media rebranding communications

This link is to the terms at that point http://web.archive.org/web/200702141...ble/terms.html

We never got that much like we never get anything that involves a change of any terms and conditions.

The company is useless at issuing any form of communications to its customers, yet loves to throw them in your face when you don't know anything about them.

Roll on when everything is sorted and I can make the call and tell VM to collect its worthless junk from my house.

[pippincp]

We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the interactive services on your Virgin TV and/or Internet access. In the event that you exceed any usage allowance applicable to your Internet access or your use does not comply with the 'acceptable use policy' which you can read on the Virgin Media website, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet access. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet access charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet access to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge. If we make such changes we will notify you as soon as possible.

That last sentence is a reason for non-acceptance and immediate cancellation without penalty.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by pippincp

If we make such changes we will notify you as soon as possible.

That last sentence is a reason for non-acceptance and immediate cancellation without penalty.

They really do think that you reading it on their website is all that is required on their part. there isn't any clue that anything has changed. you are expected to read it from start to finish and compare it with last weeks which you won't have because it has been over written by this weeks.

What they are doing is very deceiving and could amount to fraud.
why won't they save themselves any legal challenge and send a postal copy to everyone? other companies mange to do it no problem. it's not as if they are changing them every 5 minutes, and have anything to hide.

[icsys]

Could this extract from The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 have some bearing on the fact that T&C's are being changed and no written notification is being given to the customers that it will affect.

Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

Regulation 5(5)

INDICATIVE AND NON-EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR

1. Terms which have the object or effect of-

(i) irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

[LostintheNW]

In order to be bound by any changes to any contract you have to have been made aware and all opprtunity to agree or not agree to them, if you are not notified you cannot be bound by them as you are deemed to have no knowledge - in order for a contract to be binding there has to be offer and acceptance - without the notification there is no offer for you to accept

[BenMcr]

There have not been any changes to the written T&Cs. STM was introduced but that is already covered by the T&C clause I posted