50Mbit Rollout Has Started

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Horace

I'm not totally sure how much NTL charge for a leased line but I've seen quotes around the amounts I've stated. Mostly forum posts and nothing better than the 'bloke in the pub' sources which I should of stated in the original post.

NTL don't publish prices, but it's not hard to find companies that do. e.g. http://www.newnet.co.uk/leasedlines/index.php

So you weren't too wide of the mark.

[deed02392]

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

Whilst the DoCSIS 3.0 Modems only have the ability to be registered on a single upstream and that upstream can only be 3.2Mhz QAM16 (10Mb/s) then it is very unlikely that 5Mb/s Upstream would be viable (2 simultaneous users bust the upstream). Higher Upstream may come when upstream channel bonding is available (2009/2010).
The other option is to spend shed loads of money to bring the return path up to a higher quality to support QAM32 or QAM64.

No one is giving numbers for what they want in upload, but I believe the general consensus is at least and upload bandwidth that meets the overhead of the download speed they are advertising.

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

Whilst the DoCSIS 3.0 Modems only have the ability to be registered on a single upstream and that upstream can only be 3.2Mhz QAM16 (10Mb/s) then it is very unlikely that 5Mb/s Upstream would be viable (2 simultaneous users bust the upstream). Higher Upstream may come when upstream channel bonding is available (2009/2010).
The other option is to spend shed loads of money to bring the return path up to a higher quality to support QAM32 or QAM64.

---------- Post added at 07:18 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------

I am interested how some of you feel it possible for VM to offer greater upload speeds on a network that only has 30Mhz return path spectrum in which to work?
To me that breaks down as only having between around 18Mhz and 30Mhz to use, so 4 upstream channels.. 3 x 3.2MHz QAM16 and 1 x 1.6Mhz QPSK shared across around 400 customers

But again that goes back to the fact when 50mbit was in planning stages and they had the go ahead...they had enough money to upgrade a hell of alot of the kit and to make upstream bonding possible (i know the planned upload for 50mbit was originally 5mbit per the stage 1 planning), then..it was decided it wasnt *viable* (which really meant, stuff payin for all that, i want my big fat bonus, again) and it got scrapped, half the money got taken away and now we are going to have a half assed service.

Ironically that's what happened to comcast...till the customers found out and they were -forced- to cough up.

Too bad we cant do the same with VM.

It's like this 40G linkup fiasco, they was supposed to upgrade to 100G before neil came into play...now they are showing off about 40? that's nice..it isnt really gonna help the network when you have 50mbit coming into play. oh wait...yes it will because they refuse to provide any good type of upload.

[BenMcr]

Just wondered if anyone had seen this

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitalt...mbps-plus.html

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Just wondered if anyone had seen this

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitalt...mbps-plus.html

Yep, comcast are planning 20, 50 and 100mbit symetrical services for sometime late 2009.

I think the 100mbit will fall flat on its arse as their hardware isnt very good.

The rest are very viable though, the 50mbit symetrical is already being trialled (behind closed doors).

Just look at fios, 50/20 package...doesnt that make VM look pathetic?

[Impz2002]

Fios is an awesome system but thats fibre. It does show that people are willing to pay and it can be profitable !

If VM gave 50meg a decent upload and spent some time making the average consumer aware of its advantages it would be a headline product and a huge success !


Impz

[deed02392]

Haha, when Hell freezes over.

[danielrostron]

Ignoring all the technobabble, do we have any confirmed pricing, release dates etc for the 50mb product?

Anyone got any cold, hard facts?

[broadbandbug]

Originally Posted by TraxData

But again that goes back to the fact when 50mbit was in planning stages and they had the go ahead...they had enough money to upgrade a hell of alot of the kit and to make upstream bonding possible (i know the planned upload for 50mbit was originally 5mbit per the stage 1 planning), then..it was decided it wasnt *viable* (which really meant, stuff payin for all that, i want my big fat bonus, again) and it got scrapped, half the money got taken away and now we are going to have a half assed service.

Ironically that's what happened to comcast...till the customers found out and they were -forced- to cough up.

Too bad we cant do the same with VM.

It's like this 40G linkup fiasco, they was supposed to upgrade to 100G before neil came into play...now they are showing off about 40? that's nice..it isnt really gonna help the network when you have 50mbit coming into play. oh wait...yes it will because they refuse to provide any good type of upload.

There is no kit that VM haven't bought that enables Upstream Bonding.. The Cards for Upstream Bonding are not yet available from either Cisco or Motorola.. 2009/2010 as far as I am aware.
The only option in the meantime is more dense modulation schemes (QAM32 or QAM64) and you know how that would perform

[popper]

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

There is no kit that VM haven't bought that enables Upstream Bonding.. The Cards for Upstream Bonding are not yet available from either Cisco or Motorola.. 2009/2010 as far as I am aware.
The only option in the meantime is more dense modulation schemes (QAM32 or QAM64) and you know how that would perform

this lack of tested upstream bonding "silver" or "Full" D3 seems to be true at the moment, however 2009/2010 seems far to long a commercial availablility timescale given the new push to the new (Euro-)D3 spec worldwide.

while its not really a viable option as far as i can tell,(does anyone have experience of this kit?) they could go for a limited "Full" D3 Speced "Casa Systems" device or 3 in each headend as a limited trial/test on the "Full" D3 certified spec, if matched up with one of the "Full" D3 CPE (probably Ambit on past experience)due out in full production in around 3 months i think....

also,there are several more "waves" to come this year, so there is also a potential to get a silver or even a full 'Cisco or Motorola' card through and into commercial production this year....

http://www.lightreading.com/document...53441&site=cdn
"CableLabs also awarded “full” qualification status for Cable Modem Termination Systems (CMTS) to Casa Systems for two devices. This is the first qualification of a DOCSIS 3.0 CMTS representing “full” or complete compliance with all requirements of the DOCSIS 3.0 specification for headends. Motorola received bronze qualification for its CMTS."

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Originally Posted by broadbandbug

Whilst the DoCSIS 3.0 Modems only have the ability to be registered on a single upstream and that upstream can only be 3.2Mhz QAM16 (10Mb/s) then it is very unlikely that 5Mb/s Upstream would be viable (2 simultaneous users bust the upstream). Higher Upstream may come when upstream channel bonding is available (2009/2010).
The other option is to spend shed loads of money to bring the return path up to a higher quality to support QAM32 or QAM64.

---------- Post added at 07:18 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------

I am interested how some of you feel it possible for VM to offer greater upload speeds on a network that only has 30Mhz return path spectrum in which to work?

To me that breaks down as only having between around 18Mhz and 30Mhz to use, so 4 upstream channels.. 3 x 3.2MHz QAM16 and 1 x 1.6Mhz QPSK shared across around 400 customers

i was under the impression the No.s your quoting are the average US non Euro D1.0 No.s

and the majority of kit in VM network was infact Euro D1.1 kit ? and so has both more freq and speed to play with on average....

and thats not even allowing for the far improved speeds/freq per single channel of the new (Euro-)Docsis2.0B spec that the (Euro-)D3 will be using as its base....

also , i cant find the link i put up on the other thread that showed the recommended "(US)industry best practice" slides, was to in effect re-seg/shuffle the available total currently used freqs around, so as to allow far for scope in improved larger blocks of freqs to play with later,to get ready for the up and coming D3 rollouts worldwide....and other future options etc.

sure its on a company by company basis, but it seems only wise of VM with its massive UK market share, to have at least started , or at least got a plan ready for the recommended re-shuffle of the total used freq plans over the whole VM network.

and thats not even considering the turning off of the old analogue sometime in the future (2010/1012 was it?).

[CWH]

Well, Neil is now talking about 100Mbs - for relatively little money - according to him!

Colin

[popper]

i found the slides , my mistake they were more for the downstream and they only show the US 6MHz not the Euro 8MHz etc but take a look at slide 25 and 26 for an idea.

http://www.bloobble.com/broadband-pr...epsession=true


btw, heres the info for those current D2 cards with masses of extra ports per card.

and it seems they are or will be ready with D2.0B specs and so usable with the far better speeds on a single channel, and they are still the cheapest any cards have been to date too...
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/10...l#post34470723

---------- Post added at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

Originally Posted by CWH

Well, Neil is now talking about 100Mbs - for relatively little money - according to him!

Colin

at Neil reading my earlyer posts perhaps, LOL

shame about him canning the core 100Gig tested though as per above to cure or at least mitigate many near future potential problems.... (shhh, dont mention the 50Mbit will be really 43 Mbit max before any STM is even used due to the stupid 1.5Mbit limit on the upload ).

so NOT 2010/1012 after all, infact its this month........

"
Analogue axe 'could lead to 100Mbps net'
Monday, May 12 2008, 16:51 BST
By Dave West, Media Correspondent
Turning off analogue signals will allow Virgin Media to provide 100Mbps downstream speeds over its cable network "if we chose", according to the firm's chief executive.

Neil Berkett said the combined effects of introducing the DOCSIS 3.0 transmission standard and the freeing up of capacity by switching off analogue cable TV transmissions would allow it to continue providing faster broadband than competitors.

The company today confirmed it was commencing a tentative region-by-region programme of ending analogue cable TV service.

"Relatively modest investment in customer equipment and [headend] ports for channel bonding is required to do this and is included in our current capital expenditure guidance," he told investors.
....
"

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitalt...witch-off.html
"
Virgin begins analogue cable switch off

Monday, May 12 2008, 12:35 BST
By Dave West, Media Correspondent


Virgin Media has begun a tentative programme of switching off analogue transmission across its cable network.

Digital services have been available across much of the UK's cable network for several years, but about 200,000 homes are still watching analogue cable television provided by Virgin.

Under the "long term" region-by-region project, which is beginning this month, analogue subscribers in areas where digital cable services are already available will be offered transfers to new packages, the company told Digital Spy.
....
"

---------- Post added at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

any comments on how this switch off might effect the (Baguley ?..NW) bringing the "return path up to a higher quality" and so presumably improve the noise levels and far better Euro-D2/D3 (single channel) freq use throughput etc.....

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

"Berkett said: "We currently only use two 8Mhz channels to serve all our broadband customers. For DOCSIS 3.0 this will be tripled. Each additional channel will be freed up by switching off a single analogue channel.
"

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

keep in mind they dont have silver or "full" for this CMTS kit yet but this press release just now was interesting for the first real officially stated MAX No.s for the minimum spec 4 ports download speeds.

not that we will see anywere near this with VM limits in place inthe future, but the potentials there.

see the TX32 card i referenced on the other thread for the up/down ports etc...

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2008,+12:56+PM
"....

The BSR 64000 can be configured for I-CMTS with the addition of the
Motorola TX32 decoupled downstream module.

The deployment of the TX32 provides a significant increase in downstream capacity and an increase in downstream bandwidth.

It allows operators to deploy ultra-broadband services with data speeds in excess of 145 Mbps to a single DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem, and over 200 Mbps to a single EuroDOCSIS cable modem, by leveraging DOCSIS 3.0 downstream channel bonding....
....
"

Direct from the horses mouth about 50mbit, apparently they cant do simple math.

The minimum upstream to support 50Mbps downstream is actually a lot less that 1.5Mbps! Tried, tested and proven.

The trials have been running for nearly two years, everyone on the trial can get 50Mbps downstream.

We have meetings with the trialists in Kent (both virtual and "physical") and believe we've chosen an upstream that the majority of people are happy with.
1.5mbit is more than enough for anyone to do things online.

The upload will not be any higher as this has already been set in stone.

Of course, it won't suit everyone, does anything?! But I feed all the trialists views into VM so that they can decide....I don't ignore anyone.

Hope that helps. I can't go into much detail (for a lot of commercial reasons), but I will reply to any message you send me....unless it's abusive.

-Name Removed xxxxxxxxx

[Mick Fisher]

Originally Posted by TraxData

Direct from the horses mouth about 50mbit, apparently they cant do simple math.

Oh well, that's that then. 50meg..dead in the water for me and I don't even do torrents.

Just that a decent upload is a nice thing to have, for on the odd occasion you might need it.

50meg if it's subject to a stupid STM is not even gonna be helpful to a household with multiple PC's.

It really is only good for bragging rights.

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by TraxData

Direct from the horses mouth about 50mbit, apparently they cant do simple math.

Pathetic.