50Mbit Rollout Has Started

[popper]

a BOTE calc from your supplyed No.s indicate that infact a consistant absolute minimum 1.733 Mbit upload rate is required for the 50Mbit to be fully utilised.

as i said, 1.5Mbit upload rate isnt enough... ,call it a full 250 Kbit short after overheads, at least...

OC if you want to help them justify keeping the lower upload rate ration for the highest price, you can be sure they will do it being VM after all

they already have the UKs worst ration after all, weras they could massively profit from good PR if they moved that ratio fact to the other extream....

and as TD and others elsewere have said, thats not even allowing for browseing or uploading files were ever while maxing the 50Mbit download rate.

and forget gaming pings or hosting games for your mates etc at the same time,that will also slow or degrade your 50 Mbit download abilitys.

more upload rate is always a good thing, even if you think you dont care about uploading...

[Robertus]

I don't actually upload when I'm downloading (in the true sense e.g. uploading on a torrent).

So that's no big deal for me.

I don't host games for my mates, we use dedicated servers...oh and if I'm going to be hosting then I ain't exactly going to download.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Robertus

I don't actually upload when I'm downloading (in the true sense e.g. uploading on a torrent).

So that's no big deal for me.

I don't host games for my mates, we use dedicated servers...oh and if I'm going to be hosting then I ain't exactly going to download.

yes Robertus, but i hope iv made it clear, and you do now realise that for every single download packet you get ,you also need to send those return path acknowledgements ?

and as explained above, your never going to get the full use of the 50Mbit download rate as there isnt enough upload bandwidth to do that at the proposed 1.5Mbit rate?....

upload in the "true sense" as you put it, is nothing to do with torrents,ftp etc in this case.

its all to do with having enough upload space and a good extra overhead for the ACK packets to pass unhindered so as to use the download rates as supplyed and payed for... without stalling the connection, and so never a possibility of reaching the top speeds .

its all about the ratio, and 50Mbit to 1.5Mbit ratio is not enough even on paper, never mind the real world overheads of docsis3 ,tcp/ip etc.

[Ed2020]

Whether you're uploading on P2P is irrelevant. When downloading from *any* TCP source (not UDP) your computer will send acknowledgment packets back to the source server, essentially saying "I've got that packet of data, send me the next one".

1.5Mb up is not enough to support 50Mb down. You will max out your upstream bandwidth before you get to 50Mb down, so the 50Mb connection is meaningless; in all likelihood you'll never achieve it.

Ed.

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by popper

a BOTE calc from your supplyed No.s indicate that infact a consistant 1.733 Mbit upload rate is required for the 50Mbit to be fully utilised.

as i said, 1.5Mbit upload rate isnt enough... ,call it a full 250 Kbit short after overheads, at least...

OC if you want to help them justify keeping the lower upload rate ration for the highest price, you can be sure they will do it being VM after all

they already have the UKs worst ration after all, weras they could massively profit from good PR if they moved that ratio fact to the other extream....

and as TD and others elsewere have said, thats not even allowing for browseing or uploading files were ever while maxing the 50Mbit download rate.

and forget gaming pings or hosting games for your mates etc at the same time,that will also slow or degrade your 50 Mbit download abilitys.

more upload rate is always a good thing, even if you think you dont care about uploading...

So you're saying anything upto about 43.278Mb will be fine, anything more and the connection stalls. That's a whole 7Mb short...

[popper]

yeah, you see the point

people just dont realise that they need the upload rates because they are uploading even when they think their not.

hopefully Robertus and the other readers now realise how it works, and will also push for some extra overhead in the upload rates at least.

[kirk1690]

they can stick it where the sun dont shine !!!

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by popper

yeah, you see the point

Interesting, thanks!

Wish i could get above 18Mb here, someone i know is moving into a house with 100Mb.

[popper]

can you imagine the VM advertising upto 43.278Mb though, it doesnt grab you as it might

just get yourself a few 11n routers and directional arials facing each other and share that bandwidth.

and later work on the bonding side for the wireless LAN part....
theres still a need for a simple layman's cheap way to do that ATM OC.

[Ed2020]

Originally Posted by popper

can you imagine the VM advertising upto 43.278Mb though, it doesnt grab you as it might

But if they marketed it as 40Mb and then delivered *more* than the stated maximum then that might do their (currently poor) image a bit of good!

Ed.

[|Kippa|]

Is the 1.5mbit upload rate set in stone? Or is the final upload rate still to be confirmed. For those that are in the know about the rate has it actually been finally decided what it is? I am not asking what it is, just asking if a final decision has been taken yet?

[Robertus]

I do realise your point popper...but isn't it the same with 20mb (on a different scale)?

[Ed2020]

Upstream bandwidth required for ACK is proportional to the downstream bandwidth.

The ratio between 50Mb and 1.5Mb is 33:1. The ratio between 20Mb and 768Kb is 26.7:1. The lower the ratio the better.

The upstream for the 20Mb line is a bit measly, but it's better than the proposed 50Mb ratios.

Ed.

[slowcoach]

Originally Posted by Robertus

I do realise your point popper...but isn't it the same with 20mb (on a different scale)?

When I am downloading with 10 connections at full whack browsing is only marginally slower. All thanks to the recent network upgrades.

[popper]

Originally Posted by Robertus

I do realise your point popper...but isn't it the same with 20mb (on a different scale)?

thats the thing though, many people think they get it but infact they dont, and thats understandable, if you dont have a reference point to base the up/down ratio on its easy to assume the above is the same, its not.

a "good ratio" in this case means it wont usually stall the download connection , not the more general "good ratio" as in, as close as 1 to 1/synchronous as you can get.

if the set ratio indicates your upload is below the right point, your connection will stall before you reach the top download rate, hence a "bad ratio".

if the set ratio indicates your upload is above the right point, your connection will Not stall before you reach the top download rate, hence a "good ratio".

as our reference point we take Druchii's Ethernet LAN speed as the average to do our rough calcs.

in effect Druchii is utilising only 28.846Mbit in upload ACK packets for his 75Mbit download, well within the Ethernet tcp/ip (100Mbit ethernet i assume) speed safe/good 1to1 ration, and so way above the point of a potentially stalled connection, hence a really "good ratio" the best you an get infact being synchronous.

its already been pointed out that the ration for 50Mbit/s with the 1.5Mbit/s ration is a "Bad ratio" as it needs a bare minimum of 1.733Mbit.

the 20Mbit needs a bare minimum of 693Kbit/s ,so at 768Kbit/s it's in the "good ratio" column.

the 10Mbit needs a bare minimum of 346Kbit/s ,so at 512Kbit/s it's in the "good ratio" column.

the 4Mbit needs a bare minimum of 138Kbit/s ,so at 400Kbit/s it's in the "good ration" column.

OC these are rough calcs and are the bare minimum to max out your download rate, as i said, the higher the upload rate the far better it is....

the best OC being the same speed up as down, a one to one ratio or synchronous, whatever that payed for speed rate is.

the US are selling these now, we generally dont see it in the Uk anymore, but we may once Wimax takes off such as the package being sold in west manchester for instance.