STM Statement

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Cropstar

So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade?

Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here

I very rarely will go over a 3gb limit in the evenings, but the proposed 11 hour a day stm is making a mockery of a so called "unlimited" service. Also, yes I do expect my speed to be at or around the 20mb mark 24/7, that is after all what I am paying for

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Cropstar

So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade?

Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here

Some do and some don't. a lot of it is not just about STM itself and the limits that go with it.
Karl Rio from technical support is saying that STM is not a fault and won't be reported. so anyone that is being wrongly affected by STM which a lot are and have been for some time, as VM confirmed they were and shouldn't be. these people now cannot get anyone to look into the *fault* because it is not a *fault* it was regarded as a fault just before the statement was released detailing which areas are affected, but not since.

VM are saying that all slow speeds reported that are a result of STM out of hours are not a fault. so everyone outside the stated trial areas can expect to be STM'd anytime, and there is nothing you can do about it because it is *not a fault* it is intentional.

[brundles]

Originally Posted by Cropstar

So upgrading speeds on people's original package makes people more likely to upgrade?

Personally, most people I know don't reach these limits regularly, clearly there's a disproprtionate number of people on forums like these who expect constant 24/7 max speed connections on here

No, you misunderstand me. By having different STM thresholds on different packages they are trying to force upgrades not because you want a faster connection but because of the STM free capacity of the connection.

I'm not looking for a maximum connection 24/7, but if STM comes in round the clock as TraxData has hinted then you're not going to see maximum connection for more than about 30 minutes a day...

[Aja]

Just got hit by STM this afternoon around 2pm, so the new STM times are definitely in effect in the London Enfield area, my 4Mbit connection has been cut to 1 Mbit and will stay like that for the next 5 hours. Then at 7pm I will go back up to the full 4Mbit speed but will then hit the evening "time zone" which will last for a further 2 hours, so from 2pm this afternoon the only time I can download without worrying about quotas or time zones is after 9pm ... no thanks, this is not what I paid for and if it is implemented and that seems likely ... I'm offskie!

-

[ceedee]

I'm not in a STM trial area and my download just got caught by the (normal) STM limit -- I was only about 30MB over the 800MB limit.
Had I been in Enfield, I'd have been able to download 50% *more* than currently permitted.

So for 'medium downloaders' and those who can wait to make large download after 9pm, the new trial STM limits could be an improvement.

[Aja]

My main problem with STM is that Virgin can and do change the rules as it suits them and they do so without notification, I 've just been through their website, there is nothing other than the 4-9pm STM times. How can we know how much we are allowed to download if we don't know what's going on in these trials, Also from what's been said here there is a possibility that STM will be extended beyond the 9pm time, so whats next 10am - midnight maybe. I reserve judgement on all this I'm quite happy with my 4 Mbit connection, I will be even happier when upgraded to 10 Mbit and if contention does not become an issue I won't be bothered by whatever STM Virgin Introduce. STM on a 10 Mbit connection is workable for me. STM on a 4 Mbit connection cut down to 1 MBit is not, and I'm a long way from being a heavy downloader.

-

[moroboshi]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but these new throttling levels sound extremely agressive and will hit pretty much anyone who uses the net for video. I wouldn't fancy buying an HD movie over Xbox Live then have it fail half way through as I had hit some completely ridiculous bandwidth cap.

My question is this - would using some sort of tunnelling system, like VPMTunnel, somehow get around the throttling? If not, is there any way around it? It's bad enough Virgin are implementing something as obnoxious and basically illegal as Phorm, but this capping/throttling is getting so bad they really seem determined to destroy their own platform.

[mcmanic]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

I wouldn't fancy buying an HD movie over Xbox Live then have it fail half way through as I had hit some completely ridiculous bandwidth cap.
.

100% agree, and this is what ennoys me the most. I pay for 20meg top tier package , then pay for xbox Live and other subscriptions and i cannot even use them to the full extent making the whole internet and broadband worthless unless i use "them out of hours" that don't suit me because VM cannot provide and any sort of "decent level of service" without putting stupid restrictions in place.

VM is really going down the pan these days i'm afraid to say

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by moroboshi

Sorry if this has already been asked, but these new throttling levels sound extremely agressive and will hit pretty much anyone who uses the net for video. I wouldn't fancy buying an HD movie over Xbox Live then have it fail half way through as I had hit some completely ridiculous bandwidth cap.

Would an ~4GB Xbox movie download actually "fail" when an STM restriction cut-in? I'd have hoped that MS's fairly sophisticated software could cope with an interruption or slowdown.

I don't want to be seen to be supporting any STM but as I mentioned in an earlier post, the trial STM limits are less aggressive (at least for my 4Mb connection) that those already in operation.

My question is this - would using some sort of tunnelling system, like VPMTunnel, somehow get around the throttling? If not, is there any way around it?

The data would still be flowing through your UBR to your connection so I can't see it would make any difference, apart from slowing down your pre-STM speed.

It's bad enough Virgin are implementing something as obnoxious and basically illegal as Phorm, but this capping/throttling is getting so bad they really seem determined to destroy their own platform.

If both are implemented as currently understood, I'd tend to agree with you.
The only thing I can suggest is writing to VM to voice your concerns.

[Aja]

I don't see myself as being better off under the new STM all they have done is extend it further, the existing STM was quite clear to everyone, the peak hours were designated as 4-9 pm, and you knew your allowance. Outside of those hours your'e free to download as much or as little as you like. The new STM kicks in at 10am and thereafter you will need a calculator to anticipate what you are able to download without triggering STM. e.g I like to watch streaming sports in a window on the desktop while I'm working on saturday afternoons a football game may take 700MB it may take 1GB, it's impossible to say or predict, if the game goes into extra time it's quite possible that I will be STM'd. I envisage problems when this goes national, this is NOT broadband.

Originally Posted by ceedee

Would an ~4GB Xbox movie download actually "fail" when an STM restriction cut-in? I'd have hoped that MS's fairly sophisticated software could cope with an interruption or slowdown.

While it would not "fail" per say, it will restrict to slower speeds and take almost 4x the amount of time to download, if your doing this in the early evening or late or night, hell or even before you have to go out, you may as well cancel it all together, Xbox360 is not something id wish to keep on for really long periods of time either.

I don't want to be seen to be supporting any STM but as I mentioned in an earlier post, the trial STM limits are less aggressive (at least for my 4Mb connection) that those already in operation.

Depends if you do any downloading, have more than 1 person using it or use the net for anything more than basic stuff, with the new STM it gets to a point of where you "darent" use it for anything incase most of your connection gets taken off you.

The data would still be flowing through your UBR to your connection so I can't see it would make any difference, apart from slowing down your pre-STM speed.

Again, goes back to the amount of time it will take the download to complete, we want faster speeds so we can finish our downloads quicker, not wait even longer.

[frogstamper]

If VM are so concerned about the amount people are downloading, why on earth are they upgrading their 4mb package to 10mb and bringing in a 50mb service? Surely if you have 50mb VM will just be able to stm you even faster.

[mcmanic]

someone should make a load of campaign leaflets and stick them to all their cabs in the streets, a national campaign of disgruntled customers. Maybe they take note if all their cabs suddenly became advertisng boards!

[TehTech]

Originally Posted by mcmanic

someone should make a load of campaign leaflets and stick them to all their cabs in the streets, a national campaign of disgruntled customers. Maybe they take note if all their cabs suddenly became advertisng boards!

An even better idea, print some big anti-phorm posters & stick them to VM's vans that you see left unattended, I have been tempted a few times as there are quite a few VM employees with vans live near me

[moroboshi]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

If VM are so concerned about the amount people are downloading, why on earth are they upgrading their 4mb package to 10mb and bringing in a 50mb service? Surely if you have 50mb VM will just be able to stm you even faster.

Good point. With a 50mbit connection you would end up being capped within minutes, which renders the whole, no doubt expensive affair completely pointless.

What irks me almost as much as this ridiculous throttling is how Virgin continue to advertise their service as being incredibly fast for those who hate to wait, and free of download limits. It's at best incredibly selective with the truth, or a less generous sort would just say it's a flat out lie. Maybe some sort of advertising standards body could look into it and slap their wrists.