Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by popper

i liked this bit best.
"we’ll only implement a solution when we can use customer data in a responsible way which safeguards privacy"

they or indeed anyone never mentions anything about paying the users a licence fee for legal use of their data.

Or even simply asking if we'd mind them making money out of it...

[boroboi]

Its a bit ridiculous.

We have to pay rent to use their technology, so why shouldnt we be able to charge then for using our property? (Our personal data)

[manxminx]

Here's a quick thought. My website URL itself is surely personally identifying info as I am the registered owner and a whois of my URL will bring up my name and address.

In refusing to allow Phorm/isp's to intercept my website for advertising purposes, I am also refusing to allow them to intercept my URL, or even put my URL on any form of opt-out list, as it's personally identifying data - and anyway, they say they don't collect any such data.

So, hows they gonna block my website from being intercepted by their software?

Gottcha!

With BT now admitting they lied - and the fallout and legal headache they are now gonna face, I'm hoping that ISP's will drop Phorm, or any such similar interception software. Phorm will then hopefully die a quick death. Fingers crossed!

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by manxminx

Phorm will then hopefully die a quick death. Fingers crossed!

But let's not leave it to chance. Let's keep up the intelligent discussion and, as importantly, spread the word. There are millions of internet users who don't even know about this scheme yet.

My guess is that ISP's will wait for the sting of initial reaction to fall away in the hope that people will lose interest.

This post will now unashamedly become one of those horrible little chain mail thingies:

"Today, you must tell at least 5 people about your ISP's intention to allow Phorm access to your data, if you don't, you have today given up a part of your right to privacy"

[popper]

a small mention at the end of this "BT spin-off bans spyware"
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...9&in_page_id=2
"
BBC iPlayer fans face hidden costs

"Simon Fluendy, Financial Mail
16 March 2008, 11:17am
....
BT spin-off bans spyware PlusNet has broken ranks with its parent BT by banning spyware company Phorm from its network.
...
"

[Matth]

I'm surprised that other ad companies are not either:
a: Trying to get a piece of this pie or
b: Kicking up a stink over unfair competition
If Phorm is the only ad company with their nose in our entire browsing experience at the invitation of our ISPs, then they have a significant advantage over ads that only target the site content or use spy cookies covering several sites in their network.

[Bonglet]

Surely this comes under data protection act and is illegal its bad enough with all the carp we get on tv about being security wise with normal mail and untrustworthy persons without isp's tying to do it under the noses of there customers.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Bonglet

Surely this comes under data protection act and is illegal its bad enough with all the carp we get on tv about being security wise with normal mail and untrustworthy persons without isp's tying to do it under the noses of there customers.

DPA covers information that can identify you, this system is more about privacy.

Your ISP has a legal duty to protect you as the data subject, the issue here is whether the information that is passed to Phorm is sufficiently anonymous to prevent breaches of the DPA.

Other topics here suggest now that there are other companies coming into this so called "contectual advertising" business. I for one think that because of the tight profit margins in the BB industry in the UK, this kind of advertising is inevitable if many ISP's want to make a profit.

I don't like it, but I think these are the issues facing ISPs.

[Florence]

Yet another phorm exploit as found by Mel on ispreview.

http://www.toobadcs.co.uk/phorm/Phor...in_exploit.htm

Possible trivial Phorm opt-in "Exploit" discovered
I was doing a tiny bit of research on Phorm last night and it occurred to me that as the Opt-out is cookie based, it should be possible to opt-in an unwilling Phorm ISP customer using cross site request forgery (csrf).

All that's required is an image link which could be hidden on a webpage or in a forum post or blog etc.

Don't worry, no opt-in images here, but you can download my test page from rapidshare.

Download-Link #1: http://rapidshare.com/files/10001349...n_exploit.html

You can check your webwise opt-in/opt-out status here http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/

Sorry if it has already been found..

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Florence

Yet another phorm exploit as found by Mel on ispreview.

http://www.toobadcs.co.uk/phorm/Phor...in_exploit.htm



Sorry if it has already been found..

So are you saying that you have just linked me to a site that has placed a Phorm cookie on my PC without my permission or could have ?

Just shows how easy its going to be to be infected with this spyware from Virgin Media.

And before you say Its Phorm not Virgin Media, Its Virgin Media as the servers are going to be in Virgin Media's pop sites so its Virgin Media that will be infecting us with this spyware.

[Quam256]

Im sure it is on here somewere ,but what are you using to detect Phorm in simple terms .Please

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Quam256

Im sure it is on here somewere ,but what are you using to detect Phorm in simple terms .Please

have a look here

http://www.dephormation.org.uk/

[manxminx]

Your ISP has a legal duty to protect you as the data subject, the issue here is whether the information that is passed to Phorm is sufficiently anonymous to prevent breaches of the DPA.

I'm sure my website URL is personally identifying data, as any whois lookup will show my name and address.

[Anonymouse]

Did someone say Sky are buying into this? Oh, bleep! My sister's changing her TV/broadband package from cable to Sky this week (though not because of all this), and I mentioned it. Her first question, unsurprisingly, was 'isn't that illegal?'

- well, isn't it?

But if Sky are doing it as well...much more of this and the smaller ISP fish aren't going to be so small any more.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

Did someone say Sky are buying into this? Oh, bleep! My sister's changing her TV/broadband package from cable to Sky this week (though not because of all this), and I mentioned it. Her first question, unsurprisingly, was 'isn't that illegal?'

- well, isn't it?

But if Sky are doing it as well...much more of this and the smaller ISP fish aren't going to be so small any more.

Sky have said they are looking into this as a possible revenue source. Sky make no money on their BB service at the moment, and anything that can add ££ per user/month has to be a tempting offer. You only have to look at their online portal content to see what kind of money they could make from targeted advertising.

I'd suggest though that this will take months. Virgin are already waiting to see what happens to BT/CPW (in terms of whether they make this an opt-in system, or provide a stronger opt-out that isn't just cookie based), their talks with Phorm are nothing more than that. Your sister should be safe to move to Sky.

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 23:21 ----------

Originally Posted by Sirius

So are you saying that you have just linked me to a site that has placed a Phorm cookie on my PC without my permission or could have ?

Just shows how easy its going to be to be infected with this spyware from Virgin Media.

And before you say Its Phorm not Virgin Media, Its Virgin Media as the servers are going to be in Virgin Media's pop sites so its Virgin Media that will be infecting us with this spyware.

So what is the opt-out cookie provided by Webwise?