Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[3x2]

The people that do opt for this option will have a modified contract that they will be made aware of before they take up this option.

That's new! So opt in/out will result in separate T&C's now?


Not Phorm but interesting if you substitute IP address for IMEI code ....

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...tracked-mobile

[ceedee]

Originally Posted by Robertus

Any news on whether VM will ditch it?

Nothing new yet.

Originally Posted by bluecar1

an intersting reply from BT today

************

I am sorry that you feel this way and can confirm that you will not be affected by webwise/phorm.

This is only available as an option to customers like yourself. If you do not change to this option then you will not be affected by webwise/Phorm therefore no changes to your contractual agreement.

The people that do opt for this option will have a modified contract that they will be made aware of before they take up this option.

If you should have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again via e-mail.

************

i am pressing for more details on the process and if cookies are still on the opt-out process

but BT seem to be backing off a bit from phorm,

That sounds like an account level opt-in, maybe they've abandonned the opt-out cookie!

[Wildie]

internal pressure from the VM staff been told this.

if thats the way Bt going to do it then sounds to me they doing it the same way they run BTFON opt in via hubs s/n or mac actual phone number, so no redirects for the normal user unless they stupid and click the opt in.

---------- Post added at 13:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

just found this on the reg
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ox_data_snoop/
well if they do go down that route they be losing the browser war %

[icsys]

Having just read Richard Clayton's re-revised Phorm explanatory document 18 May 2008, I was concerned about certain paragraphs.
Forgive me if I have misunderstood them but the document was a lengthy read.

Paragraph 72. In the meeting itself, Phorm said that the reason for not centralising the Channel Server function was that they were concerned about EU regulations concerning moving personal data outside of Europe.

Paragraph 73. I then pointed out that it was Phorm's contention that the {channel/UID/timestamp} information was completely anonymised and hence there would be no movement of data that could fall foul of the regulations - to which they responded that they wished to ensure that they were not being perceived to break the rules, even though they did not believe they would do so.

So, Phorm don't collect any personal data, but just to ensure they don't fall foul of the regulations, should any personal data be collected, it will not leave Europe.

Paragraph 77. It is Phorm's belief that it is not possible for the Channel Server (the part of the system operated by them) to make a link back to any particular individual.

It would be nice to have a bit more assurances than a belief that it isn't possible. I would suggest that it probably IS possible but they want to cover their backsides if it ever comes to light.

It would seem that the more that Phorm is pressed, the more unfavourable information emerges.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

an intersting reply from BT today

************

I am sorry that you feel this way and can confirm that you will not be affected by webwise/phorm.

This is only available as an option to customers like yourself. If you do not change to this option then you will not be affected by webwise/Phorm therefore no changes to your contractual agreement.

The people that do opt for this option will have a modified contract that they will be made aware of before they take up this option.

If you should have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us again via e-mail.

************

i am pressing for more details on the process and if cookies are still on the opt-out process

but BT seem to be backing off a bit from phorm,

i am also waiting final details of buying out my contract from them, whether one off payment or still monthly on my phone bill until the end of the contract

I would ask them if you can cancel your contract if you find you have been diverted to phorms servers to see if you are opted in or out since you wish to not be intercepted at all.

[Stuart C]

Originally Posted by Wildie

just found this on the reg
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...ox_data_snoop/
well if they do go down that route they be losing the browser war %

Because I think this deserves it's own thread (rather than diverting this one), I have created one: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/25...l#post34555467

[bluecar1]

getting further

just in from BT

****************

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your e-mail.

No problems whatsoever, I understand your situation and will gladly assist you in anyway possible.

If you stay on what you are on then your data stream will be on a none intercepted path like it is now. BT cannot and will not do anything to disrupt the flow without your consent on taking up the option of webwise/phorm.

This is still in trial period mode at the moment and more details will be available if this option is launched officially.

The charge if you cease your broadband service will be as one lump sum and if you decide that moving is the way forward for you then I will be able to supply you a MAC Code.

I look forward to your next correspondence.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours sincerely,

Jamie XXXXXX
eContact Customer Service

************

"This is still in trial period mode at the moment " ????, does this mean the trial is running??

"If you stay on what you are on then your data stream will be on a none intercepted path like it is now", this seems to be a network address based system so things can be routed

peter

[Wildie]

if I read that right "This is still in trial period mode at the moment " I would read that as they are using it now.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

getting further

just in from BT

****************

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your e-mail.

No problems whatsoever, I understand your situation and will gladly assist you in anyway possible.

If you stay on what you are on then your data stream will be on a none intercepted path like it is now. BT cannot and will not do anything to disrupt the flow without your consent on taking up the option of webwise/phorm.

This is still in trial period mode at the moment and more details will be available if this option is launched officially.

The charge if you cease your broadband service will be as one lump sum and if you decide that moving is the way forward for you then I will be able to supply you a MAC Code.

I look forward to your next correspondence.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours sincerely,

Jamie XXXXXX
eContact Customer Service

************

"This is still in trial period mode at the moment " ????, does this mean the trial is running??

"If you stay on what you are on then your data stream will be on a none intercepted path like it is now", this seems to be a network address based system so things can be routed

peter

I would say this is now in use but what you want really is written assurances that once trial is over and if they go down the phorm path will you be intercepted then. I think BT are dealing in a crafty way not wanting to lose more customers yet still trying to manipulate people into the trap for them to earn big monwy from the clicks...

[popper]

Originally Posted by bluecar1

getting further

just in from BT

****************

Dear Mr XXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your e-mail.

No problems whatsoever, I understand your situation and will gladly assist you in anyway possible.

If you stay on what you are on then your data stream will be on a none intercepted path like it is now. BT cannot and will not do anything to disrupt the flow without your consent on taking up the option of webwise/phorm.

This is still in trial period mode at the moment and more details will be available if this option is launched officially.

The charge if you cease your broadband service will be as one lump sum and if you decide that moving is the way forward for you then I will be able to supply you a MAC Code.

I look forward to your next correspondence.

Thank you for contacting BT.

Yours sincerely,

Jamie XXXXXX
eContact Customer Service

************

"This is still in trial period mode at the moment " ????, does this mean the trial is running??

"If you stay on what you are on then your data stream will be on a none intercepted path like it is now", this seems to be a network address based system so things can be routed

peter

that statement is false, weather as a mis-informed agent of BT or an outright lie to keep you in the contract is yet to be determined OC.

take a look at the information they placed in the public domain picture for that official upcoming trial and its clear they can not do anything but intercept,collect and process your Auto Copyrighted dataflow as layed out.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...l#post34524675

also we know that BT retail cant assign static ISP given IP address to you the customer as an opted-in Phorm 'data provider for profit' as they dont have the means to do that, only BT wholesale can do that apparently.

[Anonymouse]

Well, it seems the ICO are bottling out. I got a reply from them which included:

The Information Commissioner does not have responsibility for advising on or enforcing the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA). I should also make clear that the Information Commissioners Office does not have responsibility for advising on or enforcing the Computer Misuse Act 1990.

If they don't have responsibility for RIPA or the CMA, who the hell does?

And we still don't know what, if any, action Virgin are taking. Dammit, we shouldn't have to use Dephormation or TrackMeNot - this crap should not be bloody happening! We're supposed to have laws about this!

The ICO's reply pointed me here - I don't know if anyone's seen this, or how meaningful it is.

I don't know, I really don't. IronKey is looking a more and more attractive prospect - if the advertisers aren't careful, the next stage might be that users will start calling for their ISPs to provide encryption and/or VPN by default for every activity, not just credit card transactions. It'll be a step backward - the Internet is supposed to be open access, but they're pushing us towards a closed model just so we can stop them pestering us.

From First Contact:

"The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!"

To which the advertisers reply: RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US. YOU BELONG TO US. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN AND UTILISE IT TO INCREASE OUR PROFITS EVEN THOUGH YOU MOST LIKELY WILL BE UNABLE TO AFFORD ANY OF OUR PRODUCTS GIVEN THE WAY THE ECONOMY IS GOING.

Well, we shall see.

[BadPhormula]

Has anyone else noticed that BT have added more to their retain customers package? Now they have added a mobile broadband facility!

Is this to sweeten the deal for the bitter pill, 'Webwise', that they want their customers to swallow? Pile on the packages so they make it more difficult for customers to leave the festering pustule, BT.



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[popper]

NebuAd isnt filled in yet, go to it you US and Canadian (and oz ?) users.

http://www.crunchbase.com/company/nebuad

[davethejag]

Hi All, Just seen this. -

http://www.security.itproportal.com/...stomers-usage/

Regards to all, davethejag